Go to navigation
It is currently Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:03 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:27 pm
Posts: 62
Or do you have to get closer to a 100 to have any hope?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 63
Depends what school you are looking at. My daughter was scoring that last year then 95% on many last summer with the odd 100% However, froze on the day, she passed but not as highly as we would of expected. Make sure you put as much emphasis on timing as score, and maybe add a few distractions when they're doing it, to get a real taste of the test. (Comes to light there were 3 pages full of distractions written by the invigilators in my daughters test)!!
Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 866
My DD left out 13 questions in the second test and still managed (to our surprise!) to pass in the top half of the 120 for pates so it isn't quite as bad as you might think! Good luck


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
You're still some way away from the test. If you're having your chikld tutored, or working your way through books / online practice questions (available from elevenplusexams, no doubt), then they'll improve before the test.

Some children do worse on the day, others rise to the challenge and do better than at home / tutors.

As a rough guide, if your child is predicted L5's for end of KS2 SATs and has reasonably high CAT scores (you can ask the school for these - but I would expect a mean CAT score of at least 115 for a Grammar-suitable child), then then they should be OK. If the mean CAT is closer to 100, or SATS are L4b's (with maybe a 4a), then your child is likely to be of average intelligence, and probably not suitable for grammar. That's not me being nasty, or snotty, because the majority of the population will be around 'average' - just above or below.

Regarding CATs, if you're lucky, your school should be able to provide you, on request, with a printout headed 'Individual pupils' CAT & KS2 profiles.

It gives scores for verbal. non-verbal & quantitative SATs, along with an overall mean.

The interesting scores are the SAS - Standardised Age Scores, which are plotted on a little chart 'SAS with 90% Confidence Bands', at the bottom of which is a scale for Stanine (Standard Nines) - that breaks down the whole chart into ninths, where one ninth of the population would fall into each block. 1 is 'Very Low', going to a score of about 72. 4, 5 & 6 are 'Average', with scores from about 88 to 110. 'Above Average' is 7 (110 to 117) and 8 (118 to 127), and 'Very High' is above 127.

The same change gives an indication of how the child will do in SATS based on their intelligence (as opposed to how the teacher expects them to do, based on how much swatting they can cram in), expressed both as a level, an 80% confidence band and the chance of getting that level (so English would show as - for example - 20% chance of L4, 80% chance of L5).

These are all based on the CAT tests taken in Y5. They are NOT ones that the children are prepared for by the teachers, as the school is not judged on them, so they tend to be a pretty good reflection of how bright the child is. If the child has a good set of CAT scores, yet did worse than expected in the 11+, and the parents say there were mitigating circumstances, an appeals panel could make a good guess that the parents are telling the truth. On the other hand, if a child has a Stanine of 5 or 6, predicted SATs of L4's, did badly in the test, but the parents say that it was a freak result as they'd been doing really well in the practice tests over the last 2 years, a panel might wonder if the 11+ was actually indicating the child at the top of their personal ability, who might struggle in a grammar environment.

Not all parents or schools submit CAT scores. Many parents have never even heard of them, or if they have, didn't know that they could find out about them.

_________________
Capers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 577
capers, do all state primary children do CATS as part of the NC or can schools opt out? If there's a sniff of a test. our school opts out where possible. Is there a way of testing them ourselves to get the score?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 233
That sounds pretty good and although I was the worlds WORST at thinking "will this score be good enough?"thing is you really dont know until the day :(
As Capers said,some rise to a challenge-others dont.
Timing and learning to control nerves is,IMO,almost more important than scoring highly in practice tests.
I really believe getting your child to control themselves is so,so important.
Capers,your info on the CAT tests etc was brilliant.
Our school did them but I honestly had no idea till(due to thi forum!)I asked DS1's score.
He was predicted L5's in the SATS(waste of time!)and was on stanine 9 with a 133 in all three batteries of the CAT tests.
I did most of it (luckily he just needed pointing as Im not as bright as him!)and he had tutoring through the summer and a couple of practice exams in exam conditions which were invaluable.
Hes a Nov birthday too.
He was getting an average of @90% on the practice tests and the occasional 85% on the "hard"ones(Tutors L4's I think)and 99% on the nfer ones(giraffe)but that was almost toward the end of the summer.
He was finishing with @ 2 mins to spare/check.
He was 134 on the Pates list and has got his place to start in September.

I dont envy you at all-all the number crunching and worrying about standardisation and all the rest of it almost killed me but youll get there and it sounds like your DC is doing great :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:45 am
Posts: 77
My DS is off to pates next year. We started with the Susan Daughtrey book in the summer holidays and a few papers in September. He was scoring 85-100% depending on the paper. I think he had a good day on the day of the test.
To put in perspective with school scores. He scored 126 in the CATS and school advised us they weren't sure he was grammar material (any grammar school) the july before the test.We didn't ask before that, naively expecting to be told like my parents were. Looking back on his SATS scores he scored level 4b in year 4 non statutory tests(schools can opt in apparently every year), level 4 b in year 5 again and predicted level 4a/b this year. We queried that this is not in keeping with his CAT score or Pates result and they tell us that he is performing to his best ability and we are expecting too much of him. We queried the lack of progress and they said not to worry and some children level out. We have just moved our DD elsewhere(in current Y4) and after 2 weeks at her new school she has come on leaps and bounds in terms of confidence in herself and happiness. We are really hoping that he will polish up a bit next year! When we ask or DS about it he just says he hates his school and can't be bothered to work. He is very very excited to be going to Pates, in fact he drove the whole process rather than us.

So I would say, you know your child, they probably know their own ability too. Your child will end up at the right place for them. I would work on, as Mumintewkes says, the timing and calming down side of things. Its very important as so many kids cannot hold it together on the day.

Good luck. I am so glad to have the year off this year!
Livvilooxx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
menagerie wrote:
capers, do all state primary children do CATS as part of the NC or can schools opt out? If there's a sniff of a test. our school opts out where possible. Is there a way of testing them ourselves to get the score?

I think all state schools do them. It scores might get sent to the LEA. Often the children don't realise that they're doing the tests.

Most schools do not give the results to parents as a routine thing, but will if you insist. I think it's that they don't like giving parents the chance to boast, or compare abilities. It could also give parents a stick with which to beat teachers (my child's really bright according to this, but you're not giving him appropriate work).

Of course, if the school follows the Steiner curriculem, then they will probably administer FCTs instead. That's Fairy Cognition Tests, so see how great a belief in fairies, wood sprites and other mythical creatures the child has. Though you'll also probably be asking me why I call them mythical. :shock:

_________________
Capers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
There are circumstances where a child can score highly in CATs and poorly in SATs and/or 11+.

For instance, I do know of children who have failed the 11+ on purpose because they want to go to local comp with their friends, but parents have been pushing them to go to a grammar.

They could also be very able as tested by CATs but got bored with so much work on SATs and rebelled by deliberately doing badly.

_________________
Capers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 63
Sorry I didn't mean to scare you, I just wanted to make the point (as all the others have done -so much better than me)! That work on timing and keeping child calm, mine was/is more than capable but let her nerves get the better of her. It really does depend on the day, but if you keep them confident and don't put too much pressure on them they'll do fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016