BBC league tables

[Stressed?Moi?]

Probably going to sound very dim here but can anyone enlighten me as to what all the figures mean please?

So glad you said that, I don't understand it either. Mind you, mention stats to me and I freeze anyway so it's not surprising, even though I do love looking at them! If someone could be patient and explain it Janet and John-like fashion, that would be great.

Whilst on the subject can anyone point me in the direction of other stats, most specifically, how many children in Gloucestershire took the exam last October and was it more than last year, and how many achieved pass rates. The reason I ask is that I've heard from one parent that the number taking the exam was way up from last year and the other that it was a very low birthrate year, with 2000 being the millenium "birth explosion" year, followed by less babies the following year.

[littlebaker]

Oh Stroudydad it was such a relief to read your post. I was so confuddled and blown away by the information in the new league tables that I actually thought the Govt. had produced them to put us parents off looking. I barely understand the posts in this thread and it's actually made me doubt my own intelligence!

[DC17C]

Hi CAT tests are assessment tests done by the school that assess verbal reasoning, non verbal reasoning and numeracy. DS did them at start of yr 5. They are scored out of 140. Average score is 100. I think they are done again at start of senior school to assess the children. The scores mentioned by previous poster show the average CAT score for children in the grammar schools. The grammar school children will all tend to have above average CAT scores- Pates is the most selective so has the highest average CAT. There is strong link with high CAT scores and good GCSE grades. The other thing mentioned is the majority of grammar children are working at level 5 when they leave primary school so are high attainers.So I guess high acheiving children in the intake - no surprise they do well in exams.

2035 children took the test don't know how many passed though.

[capers123]

If each school has an intake of 4 classes of 30 each, then that's 840 who started.

Now that's not the same as passing, as some schools are undersubscribed, even after the appeals and will have had some places allowed by appeal to children who didn't pass. Other schools have more who passed than there are spaces, some end up with more than 30 in a class thanks to appeals, and so on and so forth. Also some of the schools have a PAN / IAN of below 120.

However, allowing for a handful who take the test but are either out of county & take a place at (say) Stratford, or go private, I think it more or less evens out and around 850 pass.

[capers123]

The other thing mentioned is the majority of grammar children are working at level 5 when they leave primary school so are high attainers.

One thing with SATS is it's not only a test of intelligence, but how well they've been taught at school to pass the tests. I know of one school where hardly any of the children got a level 5 in English last year (not sure of the results of re-marks of the SATs), and that included some children who were offered Pate's (and were not in the tutor-to-death-to-get-a-Pate's-place-at-any-cost category).

Hence when looking at material presented during appeals, I don't just look at SATS scores - I try and get as much information in about the child as possible - especially CATS scores. Over the years I've noticed that the score in the 11+ has much more of a correlation to CATs than SATS and the CATS tests are not done in a pressured environment (in normal school time, whole of class taking it, untutored, no pressure to 'pass' as there's not a pass mark).

[stroudydad]

What do the average point score and value added scores relate to?

[cairo]

But, mean CAT for the same intake is as follows:

Pate's=125.9, STR=120.8, SHS=117.9, Marling=117.4, HSFG=117.1, Crypt=113.7, Ribston=112.9

Hi Platypus,

Is that recent information? If so, could you give me the link as it might be useful for a friend of mine who is having to appeal. Thanks.

On a separate issue, I think splitting GCSE results between low, mid and high attainers on entry to the school in Y7 is the most revealing information. Govt targets are that DCs who get level 3 SATs in Y6 (low attainers) should get Ds in their GCSEs. Those who get level 4s (mid) should get Cs and those who get level 5 (high) should get Bs or above.

If I look at the two closest comprehensives to me and compare it to the grammar schools, the average GCSE grade achieved by their pupils were as follows:

Low Mid High
Govt target D C B
Comp 1 F D- C+
Comp 2 D C- B+
STRS n/a B A
Denmark Rd n/a B+ A
Pates n/a n/a A+

It's no good saying that the grammars get better results because they have more intelligent children in them. These figures show that the GSs get better results out of their children even when compared to equally intelligent children at these particular comprehensives. They get more GCSEs too. Shocking really, if I'd sent my DC on level 5s to "Comp 1" he would likely have left with 6.4 Cs (although he'd have got some other "qualifications" too ). At Tommies, he's likely to get 10.4 As. That's a huge difference.

Perhaps the more competitive to get in to grammar schools with the higher CAT intake (and presumably the most competitive intake also) could really be showing even more VA?

How much value is added by a school over and above what could naturally be achieved by DCs of differing abilities is measured in a VA score, where 1000 means the DCs achieve exactly what their ability on intake predicts. So a school scoring over 1000, is adding value. One scoring less than 1000 is not.

All seven GSs in Gloucester have VA scores over 1000. Most of the comprehensives do not. It's difficult to see how much extra value the GSs could actually add. If the DCs at "the more competitive to get in to grammar schools" are achieving an average of 10.5 As or A+, there's not a lot more they can do! We don't (yet) have grades of A****...although give it time and perhaps we will.

Have you seen this table?:

http://www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/sch ... o=999&pg=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The second column from the end gives the average point score per pupil of their best 8 GCSEs for high attainers only. Four GSs in Gloucestershire are in the top 100 of the country, out of 6786 schools. For a small county, I think that's pretty amazing.

[stroudydad]

Even more confused now as both tables seem contradictory?

[cairo]

What's contradictory?

[Stressed?Moi?]

I'm finding this clearer now thanks. Do I take it Ribston is the GS that isn't on the list? I can't find it, and I can't find a way of sorting into alphabetical order by clicking on the column heading which is what you usually do on tables. Any ideas