Primary school appeals..

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PaterGloucester
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by PaterGloucester »

Amber wrote:The independent primary school with the hottest reputation for intensively preparing children for grammar school does not have a secondary school attached to it. Neither does the second hottest.
I don't know if you are referring to the Richard Pates School here (it's the usual target of these accusations), but as a parent there I can guarantee that there's nothing "intensive" about their 11+ preparation. The year 5s get half a term of one lesson a week on the different type of VR question before the summer holidays. It equates to what you could do yourself over a day with a few tests and a little preparation. On its own it certainly wouldn't swing a GS place for any child.

The point is a broader, social one. The parents who send their kids to RPS are (mostly) bright themselves, and realise the importance of getting into a 'good' secondary school. They are the ones who are tutoring their kids a year before the exam (sometimes two years) and ensuring that their kids have the whole 11+ thing locked down by the end of the summer holidays.

Where schools like RPS help is in having challenging, fun work for the children to do; maintaining low class sizes, and having enthusiastic staff under the guidance of a superb head teacher to create a happy, work ethos. Compared to the undermotivated underfunded state school our children went to initially (three years groups in a single classroom, the same form teacher for four years, work dumbed down to the level that gave the teachers the least difficulty teaching the class) RPS was a revelation. They're not hothoused, they're just happy, and flourish accordingly.

So remember, it's not what you hear outside the gates: the school does not 'intensively prepare' for the 11+, because it considers its remit as being a much broader and more important one than merely cramming for a single exam. It's Mr Cameron's 'sharp-elbowed middle class parents' who are doing the intensive preparation, not the schools. But then they're not so obvious or easy a target, are they ?
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by Amber »

You have done a great PR job PG, and I don't want to get into an ideological argument about the place or a 'this school is better than that school' tit for tat. We are all different, all value different things and all want slightly different experiences for our children. I have two sets of close friends whose children loved it there and yes, got into Pate's. I bristled within seconds of entry to the door, but that is just me, perhaps as it is the total antithesis of what I was looking for in a primary school for my young children. It is not hearsay - I have been there; and it's not prejudice - I have friends there. But one thing which attracted the latter was that preparation for GS was timetabled, although they also invested heavily in additional tutoring.

Horses for courses - glad you love it, glad you feel it was money well spent and your children are happy. That is what matters.
I love our local primary, it's free, my kids loved it and I am sorry to see the end of primary days there. That is also what matters.


Eta- I only mentioned it because I was making the point that I doubt that school, or Berkhamstead, would be motivated in supporting evidence, or lack of it,by trying to keep children beyond 11, as they don't go that far!
PaterGloucester
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by PaterGloucester »

Hi Amber
Amber wrote:But one thing which attracted the latter was that preparation for GS was timetabled, although they also invested heavily in additional tutoring.
That was the point of my post. It's the parents, not the school.

I agree that different parents prefer different types of school – I'd be worried if they didn't. My beef is when people make unsubstantiated arguments that Indie schools somehow finagle 'unsuitable' children into GS at appeal. Because they're 'unsuitable' it follows (as surely as day follows night) that this is to the detriment of the other children. There's real Daily Mail thinking going on here: it smacks of the 'over here taking our jobs' school of logic.

To my way of thinking, if your child is suitable for a GS, you work with them closely to give them the best chance of shining on the day of the test. Peering over your shoulder and spotting Tim-nice-but-not-the-brightest, who got in on appeal, shouldn't send you off gathering fallacious conclusions. Cognative dissonance I think it's called.

I think I've said all I have to say on this matter !
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by Amber »

Hi PG,

I don't think I made any such claims but if I did I apologise. As you know I don't agree with selective schooling anyway and would prefer a fully comprehensive system. I think all that prep schools do in the matter is attract people who would be (choose your own word) encouraging/helping/pushing their children to access the (perceived) best schools anyway...it is a market and those with money to spend on private schooling, and the will to do so, will buy advantage for their children however they can. This isn't the same as saying those children are 'undeserving'; but neither is it the case that they are the 'most deserving'. It's not a fair playing field and money can make the difference - most bright children in a county which has only a handful of grammar schools will still not have access to them. You are right about sharp -elbowed middle class parents - it is the same the world over, and the more you turn education into market with diverse provision, the greater will be the dominance of the middle classes in what are seen as desirable settings.
stroudydad
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:25 pm

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by stroudydad »

This has all gotten a bit deep considering I started the thread regarding entry into primary school... But keep going, it's a great read...;-)
cheltdad

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by cheltdad »

Having had a child at RPS I can assure all that if you relied on the school to get your child into a GS and/or a scholarship at an independent then you may be disappointed.
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by Amber »

cheltdad wrote:Having had a child at RPS I can assure all that if you relied on the school to get your child into a GS and/or a scholarship at an independent then you may be disappointed.
And I have kids who went through a 'satisfactory' state primary and managed both of those things, with no preparation for one, minimal preparation for the other; a radical but also once naive mother; no homework and a 'free range' childhood to boot. Genetics, good luck, wind in the right or wrong direction, as well as all the things you can influence, all play a part. :lol:
Orson
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:18 pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Re: Primary school appeals..

Post by Orson »

My beef is when people make unsubstantiated arguments that Indie schools somehow finagle 'unsuitable' children into GS at appeal.
But they do...and my arguments are not unsubstantiated.
Having had a child at RPS I can assure all that if you relied on the school to get your child into a GS and/or a scholarship at an independent then you may be disappointed.
This is SO true of EVERY primary in Glos, independent or otherwise.
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