Primary school appeals..

[Amber]

Apologies, Amber, I misread your second paragraph.

Hah, now my second paragraph....

[PaterGloucester]

Apologies, Amber, I misread your second paragraph.

Hah, now my second paragraph....

Now I'm truly lost. But I have apologised...

[Amber]

You sound like my OH, PG.
It's fine, nothing to apologise for.

[willow_catkin]

As some shouldn't be there standards inevitably drop and this has to impact on the education of other children.

Difficult how you decide who 'shouldn't be there' when it is based on 2 tests on a single day. That is why the appeals system is there because inevitably there will be some children who did not perform on the day but have evidence of high academic ability.

It really is up to the school to make the argument about PAN and prejudice if going over.

[Orson]

You have missed the point I made at the beginning of my post.
Children who are not academically able and have performed badly in the tests are gaining places at gs based on inaccurate reports and therefore should not be there.

[capers123]

You have missed the point I made at the beginning of my post.
Children who are not academically able and have performed badly in the tests are gaining places at gs based on inaccurate reports and therefore should not be there.

The current (new) appeal code is quite explicit in saying
"3.13 i) that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of the required academic standards, for example, school reports giving Year 5/Year 6 SAT results or a letter of support from their current or previous school clearly indicating why the child is considered to be of grammar school ability;"

We would want to see clear evidence of academic ability. Rose tinted reports are fairly easy to spot. If they have some kind of quantitive evidence (CAT / SAT or other VR tests), preferably from several years, then they will carry more weight.

What is interesting is where there are two appeals from the same school, yet only one has academic evidence attached.

In previous years the appeals code was less explicit, so panels may have had more 'flexibility' - some may have allowed appeals on the strength of a glowing report, but the ones I've sat on have always taken reports with a pinch of salt.

[PaterGloucester]

Children who are not academically able and have performed badly in the tests are gaining places at gs based on inaccurate reports and therefore should not be there.

On what evidence do you base this rather contentious opinion ? If you can prove this happens regularly it's a very damning indictment of the appeals process. You make it sound as if it's widespread: or are you really talking about someone you happen to know ?

There are independent schools which give rose-tinted reports on children appealing for a gs place because it's in their interests to be seen 'getting children in'.

The other enduring myth is that Independent schools do their best not to let kids progress to Grammars because they want to keep them for their own senior schools, as they are of course far more interested in raking in fees than in ensuring the best for the children in their care.

The head of our Independent would never inflate a pupil's abilities because he would realise that the child would be unhappy at a school in which he/she couldn't cope. Believe it or not the school prefers to allow their pupils to progress to Grammar schools by providing them with a first class general education: it doesn't need to pump up unsuitable candidates to inflate its (already excellent) academic achievement. From talking to parents, I believe the other Independents in the county have the same attitude.

As some shouldn't be there standards inevitably drop and this has to impact on the education of other children.

Even if your argument that underqualifed children are achieving admission by the route you describe is correct, how can you prove that in each and every case 'standards inevitably drop' ? Isn't this just your assumption ?

Unless you can provide some evidence of what you're claiming I think you should present your thoughts as opinion, rather than fact.

[capers123]

Children who are not academically able and have performed badly in the tests are gaining places at gs based on inaccurate reports and therefore should not be there.

On what evidence do you base this rather contentious opinion ? If you can prove this happens regularly it's a very damning indictment of the appeals process. You make it sound as if it's widespread: or are you really talking about someone you happen to know ?

I've seen it happen quite a few years ago when I first started out hearing appeals - the code was less clear and the panel members less cynical / suspicious that many are now. Said two members retired shortly thereafter as they were complaining that the appeals code was allowing less flexibility and they could no longer allow appeals purely on a gut feeling. I'm pleased to say that there were quite a few split decisions.

I did once see a letter of 'support' from the prep school head which explicitly said they did not want to loose that child; sadly for them, the academic evidence was very strong so the appeal was allowed.

I've also seen wonderful letters of support from head & staff at private schools which isn't backed up by the academic evidence; I'm sure they must realise this when they send it off to the parents, but they're just doing what the parents (customers) are asking. I do see similar from some state schools.

Under the new appeals code, if there isn't strong evidence of academic suitability, then there is no chance of winning the appeal. Then it goes down to weighing up each 'suitable' appeal against prejudice against the school, so even academically suitable appeals may not win.

As to what consititutes 'strong' academic evidence, I tend to be mindful that the SFA / Ombudsman may want to see a selection of the appeals if a parent complains, so we have not only to be consistent in what we consider 'strong', but it needs to be somehow quantifiable. It's not that we're covering our own backs, but trying to be fair to all the appealants and to the school.

[Amber]

The independent primary school with the hottest reputation for intensively preparing children for grammar school does not have a secondary school attached to it. Neither does the second hottest.

[capers123]

There was a case where we allowed an appeal from a private school with absolutely no quantifiable academic evidence. The circumstances were unusual in that the school system the child was moving from has a record of never testing any child (and that school was an extreme example of that system). However, the child had passed an in-year test (first ever test they'd taken) so it was an over-subscription appeal so we didn't need to look at academic side.