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 Post subject: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:03 am
Posts: 9
Hi I wonder if anyone can help regarding appealing and waiting lists.

What happens if your DC has reached the 'qualifying mark' but does not get a place because of over-subscription. If you subsequently appeal can you also go on the waiting list at the same time? Also if you then go on to loose your appeal can you still remain on the waiting list?

Any advice would be useful, sorry if the answer is obvious!


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:00 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
Bigmamma wrote:
What happens if your DC has reached the 'qualifying mark' but does not get a place because of over-subscription. If you subsequently appeal can you also go on the waiting list at the same time? Also if you then go on to loose your appeal can you still remain on the waiting list?

Yes.

To clarify - as soon as Allocation Day happens in March, if you're not offered a place, the first thing you should do is accept the place offered for your child, to ensure that you have a place at a school come September. It's on this day that the Waiting List comes into operation. At the same time, ask for the application for the Grammar to be reconsidered. There is a bit of shuffling round at this point, and after a few weeks (not sure how long exactly) you'll hear if you've won a place after all (they'll offer from the top of the waiting list).

At the same time as asking for reconsideration, you have the right to start an appeal against not being offered a place. These tend to get heard from late May until July. The Appeals Panel will have no knowledge of what position any child is on the waiting list. It has happened that an appeal has been made but withdrawn the day of the hearing as a place has been offered to the child because they made it to the top of the waiting list and a space became available.

Appealing will not affect your waiting list place. However, if the panel allows in more children than the PAN (say the PAN is 116 and the panel allows an extra 6 so the intake is up to 122), no places can be offered from the waiting list until the intake has dropped back to 115 - this could be years, if at all.

Think of it as a dual-pronged attack - your child should be on the waiting list AND also appeal. It has been known for a child to be top of the waiting list without appealing and miss out on a place, with children far further down the list being offered places.

I can go on about the technicalities for hours :shock:

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Capers


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:03 am
Posts: 9
Thanks very much for your detailed reply, it has been very useful.

I am hoping (with fingers crossed) that he may just be offered a place on allocation day, but I think it may be close.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:37 am
Posts: 21
capers123 wrote:
Bigmamma wrote:
I can go on about the technicalities for hours :shock:


Would you kindly please just go on for another minute for me, Capers? I have such a busy Summer schedule next year already. In your experience what is the latest time in July when appeals are heard and put to bed in terms of the need for parents to attend interviews or hearings? Can you say whether or not they are concluded by mid-July in terms of when 'appealers' may have to attend any panels &c.? Many thanks if you can, no worries if you can't!


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
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Location: Gloucestershire
Appealing!! wrote:
capers123 wrote:
Bigmamma wrote:
I can go on about the technicalities for hours :shock:


Would you kindly please just go on for another minute for me, Capers? I have such a busy Summer schedule next year already. In your experience what is the latest time in July when appeals are heard and put to bed in terms of the need for parents to attend interviews or hearings? Can you say whether or not they are concluded by mid-July in terms of when 'appealers' may have to attend any panels &c.? Many thanks if you can, no worries if you can't!

Each schools will be heard in a block, depending on panel member availability. So last year one school I heard was over 6 days late may & early June, another was very early July 2 days out of a week. Decisions are made (time allowing) after the last appeal for that school.

We aim to have them done before the 'moving on day / taster day', but if a panel member was taken ill, then the could get delayed or worse, heard again. Trying to find - say 5 days over two or three weeks that three people are available can be difficult!

Finally, the schools don't co-ordinate the appeals, so there could be two or three panels sitting at the same time for different schools.

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Capers


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:37 am
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capers123 wrote:
...Finally, the schools don't co-ordinate the appeals, so there could be two or three panels sitting at the same time for different schools.


Many thanks once again Capers for this invaluable information. It is extremely useful and much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:37 am
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Appealing!! wrote:
capers123 wrote:
...Finally, the schools don't co-ordinate the appeals, so there could be two or three panels sitting at the same time for different schools.


Many thanks once again Capers for this invaluable information. It is extremely useful and much appreciated.


Another question: Does the DC attend an appeal hearing?


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
Appealing!! wrote:
Another question: Does the DC attend an appeal hearing?

That is entirely down to you.

If you were to ask me if I recommended taking your child, I would say "probably not".

From the panels point of view, it matters not a jot who we have sitting in front of us; I've had appeals where the whole family (including granny, auntie & children of the family) have attended, though that is unusual. Most consist of one or both parents (both parents & both step parents has happened) or a parent and a friend/relative.

From your point of view, though - firstly, are you even going to tell the child that you're appealing - and face the possibility of them facing another 'rejection'? Some children do, however, themselves ask the parents to appeal. There's no right answer on that.

Secondly, would you want to start being asked questions about your marriage breaking up, domestic violence, terminal illness of close relative or the child wetting the bed, in front of the panel. You might find it easier to reply frankly without the child there (and yes, we've had 'bed wetting' mentioned more than once).

Appeals can be scary for those not used to the settings. We do our absolute best to keep them informal and as chatty / friendly as possible, but there's 3 (or theoretically 5) panel members, a clerk and one or two people from the school, all sat round a table. Parents sometimes burst out crying with the stress of the situation (I always have a pack of tissues to hand). Some non-academy appeals are still heard at Shire Hall in either the Chairmans' or Members Rooms - up a huge double staircase, next to the council chamber, wood panelling - it scared me the first time I went there! The Grammars usually use a hotel conference room, a community centre or space in an unconnected school.

Finally, the panels are not swayed by cuteness, likeability, chattiness or eloquence of the child. Even bringing a 'photo to place facing the panel isn't going to swing it for you! We can not devise our own measure of ability or tests, so even if a child seems bright, we'll be looking at the paperwork for the evidence, not at the face.

If you do want to bring your child for your own moral support, or they insist on attending, do feel free to bring them - but don't bring them because you think it's the 'right' thing to do.

All of this is well documented by Etienne in her excellent FAQ's linked to at the top of the Appeals Forum.

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Capers


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:18 pm
Posts: 73
Definitely echo what Capers says - I didn't tell my DS that I was appealing therefore never considered taking him. In fact on the morning if the appeal he asked me why I was "dressed up" and told him I was off for an interview. TBH he was off on PGL when the result of the appeal due back so was soooo glad I didn't tell him. It is a stressful time but in my case was totally worth it. Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal/waiting list
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1360
May sound like a stupid question, but if someone loses an appeal is there any 're-appeal' or further course of action open to the parents?


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