Know where Pates waiting list got to? Was at 134, where now?

[PaterGloucester]

Just spoke to Pates admissions and they are saying that this year it looks as if it will not go much, if at all, beyond 135. They say that one child got into the 120 by passing the exam in the late testing, so our daughter's position on the list is unchanged.

Though they accept it went past 150 for two years and then to 160 last year, they say 'every year is different' (have they heard of 'trends'?!). They doubt that it will shift much now, although there still could be private school dropouts, home moves etc but interestingly, they say that nearly all the movement had already happened by this stage last year - to get to 160, nearly 40 dropouts had occurred.

I think you're going to have to take Pates at their word. They do their best to give out as much information as possible, under pressure from sharp-elblowed parents doing their damnedest to get their kids in. It must be a thankless job.

I don't think that trying to impose your methodology ("have they heard of 'trends' ?") is a particularly useful approach. Pates knows all about 'trends'. it's just that, as they say, each year really is very different. It would have been far better for your daughter to assume she had not gained a place, then just possibly have been pleasantly surprised, than to drag the has she-hasn't she upset out this long.

To answer your other questions, Pates does not admit children again until the lower sixth (unless in exceptional circumstances). It's just conceivable Pates may go down another place or even two, but if I were you I would concentrate on selling your daughter her alternative school as strongly as possible, and not get caught up in the "didn't get into Pates" scenario. It can cause a lot of unnecessary heartache.

[NancyB]

This brings us to entry at Year 9 entry. Does anyone know how many places come up then and how that works?

Like all the grammars in Gloucestershire, Pate's isn't a private school. They don't have a 13+.

I would imagine that any 'spare' places will be offered to those who choose to remain on the waiting list. If any children win their appeals, taking the number on roll to - say - 123, then there would not be any spaces to fill from the waiting list until after that had dropped back down to 119. Even then there may well be children who move into the area, pass the test and are put onto the waiting list higher than your child.

It seems curious that there has been such large shift away from the trend of previous years. Does anyone have any theories?

Yes. Every year follows a different pattern. Each year has different numbers applying to take the 11+, a different number of children in the cohort in the county. There is not sinister plot or great move away from the private schools due to finances. Children who pass the grammar test are likely to qualify for very good bursaries if they wanted to go to a 'more comprehensive' private school, so the economy is unlikely to alter things.

One example - my eldests year had 10 out of 30 children passing the 11+. The following year only 2 children passed at the same school. The year after that around 6. Nothing to do with economy, available places - just a different cohort.

We have done our best to encourage DD to suppose that there is a possibility she will go at 13 but to not expect this autumn. She is having nightmares, nonetheless...not stupid, she knows its not really that simple.

I'd strongly recommend against suggesting that. I'm afraid the chances are very high that she will not. All the grammars in Gloucestershire are very good schools, great fun and suitable for even the brightest of bright children.

You did accept another school, didn't you? Please tell me you did!

[platypus]

r

[NancyB]

It seems curious that there has been such large shift away from the trend of previous years. Does anyone have any theories?

Yes, the change in admissions critera this year, meaning that those children scoring between 121 and 180 who are looked after or qualify for free school meals would have had an offer in the first round. This is bound to have an effect on how far down the waiting list offers are made?

You can imagine it would mean the existing offers are just more tightly packed already with children who want to go to the school and don't have any alternatives they are weighing up. I mean, it is unlikely that people on free school meals who have a place, of whom there are likely to be more than in previous years, are going to be considering private school as well. I don't mean that people will be flocking away from private schools this year especially (I have no idea about that). This difference in admissions criteria for the first time this year is surely bound to make the numbers shake out differently than they have the last couple of years.

Consider this: the school wants the brightest 120 pupils, which is not the same as the top-scoring 120 pupils. FSM/Looked-after children have probably had a lot less tuition (if, indeed, any) than the top-scoring ones, but are still in the top 180. Chances are that if they had the same amount of tuition for the exam, a FSM child would be in the top 120.

As a parent, would you prefer your child to go to a school with the brightest 120 children with maybe a wider social mix, or the 120 children whose parents could afford most tuition?

[Cup of tea]

It would have been far better for your daughter to assume she had not gained a place, then just possibly have been pleasantly surprised, than to drag the has she-hasn't she upset out this long.

To answer your other questions, Pates does not admit children again until the lower sixth (unless in exceptional circumstances). It's just conceivable Pates may go down another place or even two, but if I were you I would concentrate on selling your daughter her alternative school as strongly as possible, and not get caught up in the "didn't get into Pates" scenario. It can cause a lot of unnecessary heartache.

Agree. As galling as it is to be so close, it maybe time to move on.

This brings us to entry at Year 9 entry. Does anyone know how many places come up then and how that works?

Like all the grammars in Gloucestershire, Pate's isn't a private school. They don't have a 13+.

We have done our best to encourage DD to suppose that there is a possibility she will go at 13 but to not expect this autumn. She is having nightmares, nonetheless...not stupid, she knows its not really that simple.

I'd strongly recommend against suggesting that. I'm afraid the chances are very high that she will not. All the grammars in Gloucestershire are very good schools, great fun and suitable for even the brightest of bright children.

You did accept another school, didn't you? Please tell me you did!

Agree. You've got to show her the positives of her 2nd choice school and start planning for her future there.

Yes, the change in admissions critera this year, meaning that those children scoring between 121 and 180 who are looked after or qualify for free school meals would have had an offer in the first round. This is bound to have an effect on how far down the waiting list offers are made?

You can imagine it would mean the existing offers are just more tightly packed already with children who want to go to the school and don't have any alternatives they are weighing up. I mean, it is unlikely that people on free school meals who have a place, of whom there are likely to be more than in previous years, are going to be considering private school as well. I don't mean that people will be flocking away from private schools this year especially (I have no idea about that). This difference in admissions criteria for the first time this year is surely bound to make the numbers shake out differently than they have the last couple of years.

I don't think it has. I did hear somewhere (although this could be an urban myth) that there were no FSM/Pupil premium in the original top 180. This is not to say that there haven't been now with late testers. Agree though, there should be more kids from all walks of life and the ones with genuine pupil premium should have a fair chance.

Roll on a fairer test, oh no! Wait, it doesn't exist. For every test there will always be tutors (DIY or paid).

[Cup of tea]

Sorry, also wanted to add: you can always go down the appeal route? Looking at the advice on here though, don't expect it to be easy; go in expecting the worst and you maybe presently surprised?

[platypus]

r

[stroudydad]

Consider this: the school wants the brightest 120 pupils, which is not the same as the top-scoring 120 pupils. FSM/Looked-after children have probably had a lot less tuition (if, indeed, any) than the top-scoring ones, but are still in the top 180. Chances are that if they had the same amount of tuition for the exam, a FSM child would be in the top 120.

As a parent, would you prefer your child to go to a school with the brightest 120 children with maybe a wider social mix, or the 120 children whose parents could afford most tuition?

I think you are asking me this (I posted that comment)? I'm not sure why though. I was just trying to offer an explanation of why it might be a little different this year.

I don't think I implied that it was wrong that fsm/looked after children should be given preference.

My kids didn't have any tutoring, I am all for fairer access, and am actually very pleased about this particular change to the admissions criteria.

Hi platypus, I think you are both saying the same thing??

[turtleglos]

I can understand your disapointment, I have a ds at Pates who scraped in but is now doing very well(middle of the class, doing just enough to get by) and a ds who took the test this year (his choice) and because of various health related issues missed the pass mark.
Naturally we had hoped that he would scrape a pass and get into one of the grammars(any grammar) in order for him to have opportunities that would not be available in the local comp.
We looked at other schools when we got the result and decided to send ds2 to a local school on the basis that it seems to be the best available choice for him. This school offers different opportunities from the grammars but will give ds2 a good education if he chooses to take advantage of what is available.
This may be a good time to look at the positives in the school that your dd has been allocated and talk these up-while going through appeal (without your dds knowledge if she is having nightmares) and keeping your fingers crossed for the waiting list.

[Glos_Mum]

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