Info for 2016 entrants

[Stressed?Moi?]

yes - my worry is that the new test will only increase the numbers of indy children getting in and good luck to them - but seems harsh on other bright children who have underachiever parents (i.e. me) unable to afford the fees. It seems like a self fulfilling prophecy on so many levels.

Worth mentioning that it's not in the best interests of indie prep schools to push hard for grammar schools, as they feed into seniors and that would be cutting off income. After all, what benefit is there of Kings, Wycliffe, Dean Close, CLC, Boys' College and Cheltenham College hothousing for the grammar exam? I think it's a bit of a fallacy that indie schools are the ones who are distorting the system. Now, pushy parents at indie schools are a whole other story Having said that, all of my state school friends privately tutored their dc's and we diy'd ours, so I think the logic doesn't necessarily follow-through. My dd's friendship group at Ribston consists of a mixed bunch; two of whom are on free school meals, one is a single parent with two jobs' - one is from a private school (and she is seriously intelligent). After going through the whole new test/old test, I think they have moved in the right direction and will weed out the tutored kids. Just my thoughts.

Agree with what you say, up to a point. Although those all age schools can't afford to get a reputation among local parents for producing children who don't get into grammars. The schools who really have an incentive to get as many kids into the state grammars as possible are places like Airthrie and Berky and so on, who don't have children beyond Y6 anyway.

Oh, and FYI, "Cheltenham College" and "Boys' College" mean the same school, and CLC only starts from Y7 and doesn't have a junior department, so isn't relevant.

Yep, blonde moments there - thanks for correcting me!

See what you mean. However, with small class sizes, we are only talking tiny numbers. I'm interested in the comments (and with way too much time on my hands) so have just had a lookie at indie schools' destinations for grammar schools: Richard Pates total over the last 7 years (2007-2014)= 177 (ie, approx. 12 per year), Berkie 2014 = 16 and Airthrie = usually about 6-8. So very rough snapshot = 35-40 grammar school places achieved per year. Hardly dealbreakers when compared with the hundreds from state schools. The argument also assumes that all indie kids are hothoused and have been tutored - that certainly isn't my experience. Some of those will ultimately, even though they achieve places, go to indie schools anyway. Not sure what other school is the "so on" as I can only think of these 3 - I think the rest are follow-ons?

I feel it important to give a different perspective as I had it thrown in my face, once again, yesterday by a "friend" from my son's old state school (the one he had to leave as he was being punched and kicked frequently) that he only passed the exam as he "went to a posh school". I just think it's not on that parents of indie schools are vilified in the way they are. They are there for many reasons.

[scaredycat]

Interesting to see the indie entrants figures, how many in their year 6 classes I wonder. 12 getting grammar places doesn't sound many but I guess it depends really on what proportion of the year group that is and whether that is the same proportion for state schools. if the test is fair then the proportions should be the same, shouldn't they?

[DebsB]

See what you mean. However, with small class sizes, we are only talking tiny numbers. I'm interested in the comments (and with way too much time on my hands) so have just had a lookie at indie schools' destinations for grammar schools: Richard Pates total over the last 7 years (2007-2014)= 177 (ie, approx. 12 per year), Berkie 2014 = 16 and Airthrie = usually about 6-8. So very rough snapshot = 35-40 grammar school places achieved per year. Hardly dealbreakers when compared with the hundreds from state schools. The argument also assumes that all indie kids are hothoused and have been tutored - that certainly isn't my experience. Some of those will ultimately, even though they achieve places, go to indie schools anyway. Not sure what other school is the "so on" as I can only think of these 3 - I think the rest are follow-ons?

I feel it important to give a different perspective as I had it thrown in my face, once again, yesterday by a "friend" from my son's old state school (the one he had to leave as he was being punched and kicked frequently) that he only passed the exam as he "went to a posh school". I just think it's not on that parents of indie schools are vilified in the way they are. They are there for many reasons.

I can't think of any others in Cheltenham, but I imagine there must be others in Gloucestershire. That's just a guess though.

Clearly there are some lovely parents with kids at indie schools, and also some unpleasant and/or pushy ones. It's no more acceptable to vilify all indie parents as pushy than to vilify all state primary parents (or comp parents) as chavs who don't care about education. My kids are at state schools - I'm a single parent and could never hope to afford indie fees - but my parents sent me to an indie school, so I feel very much that I've got a foot in both camps.

[DebsB]

Interesting to see the indie entrants figures, how many in their year 6 classes I wonder. 12 getting grammar places doesn't sound many but I guess it depends really on what proportion of the year group that is and whether that is the same proportion for state schools. if the test is fair then the proportions should be the same, shouldn't they?

The proportions won't ever be the same. Educated and/or successful parents tend to pass on their attitudes to trying hard in school, not to mention their wide vocabularies and their genes for intelligence, to their offspring. All schools have some parents like that, but indie schools tend to have a higher proportion of parents like that because it's mostly only parents who prioritise education who pay for it, whereas schools that are free to attend get lots of parents who value education but some who don't as well.

[Stressed?Moi?]

Interesting to see the indie entrants figures, how many in their year 6 classes I wonder. 12 getting grammar places doesn't sound many but I guess it depends really on what proportion of the year group that is and whether that is the same proportion for state schools. if the test is fair then the proportions should be the same, shouldn't they?

Not sure, but it's the actual numbers who "take up" the places, not percentages that I'm referring to as that is always the argument. There are 28 in his year and 5 sat for it. I do think it's a shame that state schools don't encourage more people to enter. There was just one girl from the old school that entered and passed and that was because her mum took control.

Aside the above I would be happy for him to have stayed in the state system - for health and safety reasons though (and a couldn't give a damn attitude of the Head and education department) we had to do something.

[Kismet]

No wonder you were stressed, stressed We also have Dean Close and St Edwards as Indies in Cheltenham. Anyone know stats for those

[DebsB]

I do think it's a shame that state schools don't encourage more people to enter.

I know. I don't think it makes sense.

IMO either this county believes in grammar schools, has state grammar schools, and the state primary schools should prepare children for the test (within reason) and provide parents with plenty of information about how to apply and when the closing dates are and all that sort of thing. Or if this county really doesn't believe in grammar schools it shouldn't have them.

To have a situation where we have state grammars but the state primaries all pretend they don't exist, as if they're a dirty secret - that's just all wrong. We nearly missed the deadline for registering for the grammar test because I had no idea how far in advance it was. I know it's my fault for not having checked when we went to the open evening in the autumn of Y5, and I am sooo grateful to the other parent who told me, but they shouldn't have needed to. That's the kind of the thing the primary schools should keep parents informed about IMO, alongside all the stuff they actually do keep us up to date with, like the closing date for the CAF etc.

[Weaver]

DebsB - completely agree. I think everyone with year 5 children should be given the details of the process, dates, and encouragement to their children to have a go at it. At the moment it still seems to be viewed as something only genius kids or kids with uber pushy mothers attempt.

Both my children have had hassle at times from other children at their state primary telling them they are 'snobs' and 'geeks' for trying the grammar test.

I just worry about all the children who never even get the chance to give it go...

[warden]

I understand the HM from Pates has presented his vision etc at local Indy schools but as far as I know he hasn't visited any local state primaries. To be fair, it may be he hasn't been invited in which in itself speaks volumes -as someone else has alluded to, you could be forgiven for thinking grammar schools did not exist in Gloucestershire if you relied on your child's state school to inform you.

[Stressed?Moi?]

I do think it's a shame that state schools don't encourage more people to enter.

I know. I don't think it makes sense.

IMO either this county believes in grammar schools, has state grammar schools, and the state primary schools should prepare children for the test (within reason) and provide parents with plenty of information about how to apply and when the closing dates are and all that sort of thing. Or if this county really doesn't believe in grammar schools it shouldn't have them.

To have a situation where we have state grammars but the state primaries all pretend they don't exist, as if they're a dirty secret - that's just all wrong. We nearly missed the deadline for registering for the grammar test because I had no idea how far in advance it was. I know it's my fault for not having checked when we went to the open evening in the autumn of Y5, and I am sooo grateful to the other parent who told me, but they shouldn't have needed to. That's the kind of the thing the primary schools should keep parents informed about IMO, alongside all the stuff they actually do keep us up to date with, like the closing date for the CAF etc.

Spot on. It's just not on and well done you. I too think it should just be an automatic process that every child is given info on the exam - I suspect that would all just be 'too hard'. I asked my friend who is a teacher in a state school why they didn't throw themselves into it, be proud of being a school that entered their kids into the exam. Her response was that it didn't look good on the school's website when pupils failed . I was appalled. I asked how you could get the best out of each child if you had such low expectations of them. She agreed, but it was the Head's decision.

Kismet I'm not sure about those schools as they aren't feeder ones like the 3 I mentioned.