Advice please - order of preference in application

[ToadMum]

Our LA, the neighbouring LA and all the random LAs whose secondary school transfer pages I've had a look at all describe the equal preference system in detail. As has been said before, though, all the clear, rational explanation one could possibly provide will always be trumped for some people by ignorant but insistent playground chatter.

Similarly, the 'it's our catchment school so they've got to give us a place' line. Having been through the experience with DD of being asked by the LA as soon as I had submitted her CAF whether I would like to substitute another school for our 'catchment' one, as they could already tell that she would not be offered a place, I warned at least one of DS2's friend's mums last year that in at least two out of the previous three years, where we live was too far away for a non-sibling place. Fortunately for them, it was a low birthrate year because at least one of them said after the CAF closing date (and after our previous conversation), 'So-and-so said just put school X on the form, so we did'.

And as for the mum who said urge didn't want her DD2 to follow her siblings to school Y so she was putting school Z (the school in the Borough anyone in their right mind would second most likely not even wish on their worst enemy IYSWIM) first instead - then on allocation day was reported to be moaning like mad that DD2 had been allocated, yes, you've guessed it.... Just don't get me started .

[DebsB]

As a side note, do we HAVE to put 5 choices down even if we know that we will definitely get our 2nd option?!

No, you don't have to. Just make sure you include at least one school that your child is absolutely totally and utterly certain to get a place at.

I only put one school for DS (not a grammar, but the best school to suit him). I knew from the data from the past several years that people living where we live always qualify on the catchment and distance criteria, and so do loads of people living quite a lot further away than us, too. He got his place no problem, and so did a lot of his more distant-living friends.

For DD, I'll be putting two schools. She has qualified in the top 120 for HSFG, which we're putting first, so it's practically certain she'll be offered a place there, but just to cover all conceivable possibilities we'll be putting DS's comp down as second choice. We still live in the same place really close to it, and he's still there, so she'd get even higher up their list on the sibling rule.

[DebsB]

Our LA, the neighbouring LA and all the random LAs whose secondary school transfer pages I've had a look at all describe the equal preference system in detail. As has been said before, though, all the clear, rational explanation one could possibly provide will always be trumped for some people by ignorant but insistent playground chatter.

Similarly, the 'it's our catchment school so they've got to give us a place' line. Having been through the experience with DD of being asked by the LA as soon as I had submitted her CAF whether I would like to substitute another school for our 'catchment' one, as they could already tell that she would not be offered a place, I warned at least one of DS2's friend's mums last year that in at least two out of the previous three years, where we live was too far away for a non-sibling place. Fortunately for them, it was a low birthrate year because at least one of them said after the CAF closing date (and after our previous conversation), 'So-and-so said just put school X on the form, so we did'.

And as for the mum who said urge didn't want her DD2 to follow her siblings to school Y so she was putting school Z (the school in the Borough anyone in their right mind would second most likely not even wish on their worst enemy IYSWIM) first instead - then on allocation day was reported to be moaning like mad that DD2 had been allocated, yes, you've guessed it.... Just don't get me started .

Why why why why why??? Choosing a secondary school (or a primary school for that matter) is so important. Why don't people take the trouble to find out what the deal is? It's not rocket science. There are so many ways to find out the correct info - read the LEA's website, or the piece of paper that comes with details of how to apply, or ask a question on here, or read the answers to similar questions that other people have asked on here, or... or... or... so many possiblities. But still people don't bother.

[fairyjasmine]

Sally-Anne, there is a similar thread on here about someone wanting to put a non-grammar school (Balcarras) as first choice over HSFG (a grammar), but wanting HSFG as a back up as Balcarras is heavily over-subscribed. If a green person does edit that page, I think for Gloucestershire users and maybe others it would be helpful to cover that scenario too.

I think this would be very useful too. Our current order of preference is:

Oversubscribed out of catchment comp (but pretty close geographically so there's a fair chance)
Grammar
Grammar
Comp

DD is within the PAN for both grammars (I know we could have stopped at #2 but I felt more comfortable listing four!). I'm sure this is OK but every now and then someone says "but effective first choice only applies to non selective schools" or similar and the doubt creeps in. Everything I've read talks about the opposite scenario - ie putting a grammar school you're not certain of getting at #1 and a comp you're likely to get at #2. It's very confusing. I *am* right that we're not taking a big risk here aren't I? The above is our true order of preference.

[DebsB]

You're fine fairyjasmine.

Put the schools in your true order of preference. The first effective choice system applies to all state schools. Don't listen to people who tell you otherwise. They have folk memories of various systems that used to apply differently in different counties. It's not like that any more. The whole thing has been unified across the whole of England (and maybe further afield in the UK but I don't know - I think it may be different in Scotland, I haven't a clue about Wales and I imagine NI have some special system of their own). All local authorities have a CAF (although not all with the same number of spaces), all use the first effective choice system, and all send out the results on the same National Allocations Day.

Oh, and if it helps, the system's called "first effective choice" even though it tends to get referred to as "effective first choice". What it means is this:
* You make your list in order of preference. These are your choices.
* The authority's computer takes the data about siblings and distance from non-selective schools and rankings for selective ones and all that stuff, and works out which of your choices you can actually get into. These are your effective choices.
* You are allocated whichever of your effective choices is closest to the top of your order of preference - your first effective choice.

[fairyjasmine]

You're fine fairyjasmine.

Put the schools in your true order of preference. The first effective choice system applies to all schools. Don't listen to people who tell you otherwise. They have folk memories of various systems that used to apply differently in different counties. It's not like that any more. The whole thing has been unified across the whole of England (and maybe further afield in the UK but I don't know - I think it may be different in Scotland, I haven't a clue about Wales and I imagine NI have some special system of their own). All local authorities have a CAF (although not all with the same number of spaces), all use the first effective choice system, and all send out the results on the same National Allocations Day.

Oh, and if it helps, the system's called "first effective choice" even though it tends to get referred to as "effective first choice". What it means is this:
* You make your list in order of preference. These are your choices.
* The authority's computer takes the data about siblings and distance from non-selective schools and rankings for selective ones and all that stuff, and works out which of your choices you can actually get into. These are your effective choices.
* You are allocated whichever of your effective choices is closest to the top of your order of preference - your first effective choice.

Thank you Debs - that makes perfect sense.