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 Post subject: Exam marking
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 1:33 pm
Posts: 25
Can anyone tell me, is the 11+ adjusted to the child's age? I'm unsure of my dd being suitable for gs. She is September born, so would her score be adjusted as a result of her being one of the oldest? I'm in a quandary as to how much preparation to do with her. If I do too much and she passes then she could end up struggling when she gets to gs. If I go with her flow then the whole process could just be a waste of time. However, I'm all for creating opportunities, so dd will do the 11+ anyway, it's just that I am unsure at what level I should be attacking this.


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 1:05 pm
Posts: 4024
Location: Reading
While most schools standardise for age not all do, so to start with it depends which school you are looking at.

For an explanation of how it's done.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advice ... xplanation

Basically, marks are not 'added' or 'taken away' as such. Children are compared to all other children taking the test that are born in the same month.

While it is likely that a September born child would have to score higher than say an August born to get the same score, it's not a given.


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:34 pm
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To give you a bit of perspective - I have 2 children go through the GS test process. Both went to a county primary school and left with high L5 Sats both good readers and able at maths.
DD had 6 months with a tutor once a week and passed the test for 3 GS - did not make Pate's cut off. Now in Yr 10 she is happy and enjoying her school and making excellent progress.
DS... equally bright at primary school but home tutored by me....less keen to sit down to do the work and failed the test.....but now in GS after appeal and doing equally as well.

It is quite easy for a child who may be would suit a grammar school to fail the test and a few months tutoring could make all the difference. If you are characters who might clash then it can be easier all round to use a tutor. It is a tricky thing - I asked teachers what they thought ...but that is not always easy and they often don't like to make predications and in fact it was DS who the teachers were more encouraging about doing the test ...so it is never a given....
I would not be put off by the idea of standardisation
.


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 1:33 pm
Posts: 25
When asked whether dd had a chance at the 11+, my daughter's teacher told me that it depends on what mood dd was in on the day. Unfortunately dd gets overly anxious when put under stress. This concerns me when it comes to the actual exam (strange people, strange environment etc), but also, if she passes, whether gs will put her under too much stress and it is not the right type of school for her. She is very much like me, lazy, needs to be pushed, hates stress. I'm just worried that she goes to gs she will end up at the bottom as I was (somebody has to be there!) which is a possible reason for me not wanting to over tutor.

Yes we do clash, but I don't believe tutoring does good for every child in the long run. Anyway, the costs are ridiculous for us and I have the time and ability to do it myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 1:05 pm
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Location: Reading
I'm not in your region, but I diy'ed and it worked well for us.
As for teachers' opinions, her year 4 teacher thought she would have no issues at a GS, year 5 teacher doubted she would even get in.
Reality is she got in and is doing well.

Part of the preparation process is getting them ready emotionally to deal with it, not just teaching them the mechanics of the test.


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:46 pm
Posts: 77
I have 'tutored' 2 of mine & will start the 3rd in the next few months :shock: I really don't see how a child would pass (apart from an absolute minority) with no form of prep. That's not because the child isn't able but because unfortunately it is a big game & you have to play it to stand a chance of a place as so many children are being tutored for it. A friend's ds was not tutored on principle & didn't pass (a very bright child, near the top of the cohort but completely disadvantaged as had to spend so much more time reading questions than tutored children more familiar with format etc, no idea of time keeping etc). It was a total injustice! State schools give very little indication as to gs suitability & you do feel as if you're on your own with it. You have nothing to lose, any prep you do is at least helpful to the child (not like the previous test lol) & at the end of the day if they pass you have choices. If you decide gs is not the way to go once you've weighed up all your options then that's fine & there are plenty of good comps, but doing some prep puts your child in with a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:20 am
Posts: 196
Agree with Watermelon8.

Looking back now we were very naïve as we did very basic tutoring with DS, he failed GS test, managed to get a place and is now on course to achieve 8xA* and 2x9 and in the top 5 of his year. He had the ability (leaving primary with levels 6C, 5A and 5A) but no insight as to what the GS exam involved.

We home tutored DD and paid for her to sit mock exams so the actual day would not present her with any shocks. Even though (dare I say it :| ) she is not "as" bright as her brother she passed GS test for 3 schools.

You have to do prep to give your DD any chance. As their are numerous 11+books available, you can easily do it yourself so you don't have the stress of finding a tutor, (just maybe the stress of getting DD to work through them :lol: ).

All schools should have resources available if your DD struggles with any subject. My belief is, if your DD passes the test she should be able to cope in a GS. She will have to be prepared to work and not become complacent. I think a Grammar will "stretch" a child's ability, whereas a comp may not "push" them as hard.


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:32 pm
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Watermelon8 wrote:
I have 'tutored' 2 of mine & will start the 3rd in the next few months :shock: I really don't see how a child would pass (apart from an absolute minority) with no form of prep. That's not because the child isn't able but because unfortunately it is a big game & you have to play it to stand a chance of a place as so many children are being tutored for it. A friend's ds was not tutored on principle & didn't pass (a very bright child, near the top of the cohort but completely disadvantaged as had to spend so much more time reading questions than tutored children more familiar with format etc, no idea of time keeping etc). It was a total injustice! State schools give very little indication as to gs suitability & you do feel as if you're on your own with it. You have nothing to lose, any prep you do is at least helpful to the child (not like the previous test lol) & at the end of the day if they pass you have choices. If you decide gs is not the way to go once you've weighed up all your options then that's fine & there are plenty of good comps, but doing some prep puts your child in with a chance.


I'm sorry, I strongly disagree with you. I was adamant my daughter would not be tutored. It's too stressful and places too much pressure on them to pass. Why isn't there more importance placed on the mental wellbeing of our children instead?
As it turned out my daughter wanted to take the test to give her the option potentially. She was fine on the day and did the best she could using her natural ability. This is against some girls who were bawling their eyes out at the gates of HSFG and in pieces when they came out, desperate not to have let mum and dad down seeing as they'd spent so much money on a Tutor.
She passed and had offers from two schools. We opted for the one we felt she would fit in at best (with her agreement) and she got her first choice. Everyone is happy. And I'm pretty sure she will rise on her own merit from Year 7 onwards, not now facing a sinking feeling having been coached to pass an entrance test she wouldn't have otherwise.

Sorry folks, please don't tar everyone with the same brush of "you've got to tutor because everyone else is".


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:46 pm
Posts: 77
Gotinonherownmerit wrote:
Watermelon8 wrote:
I have 'tutored' 2 of mine & will start the 3rd in the next few months :shock: I really don't see how a child would pass (apart from an absolute minority) with no form of prep. That's not because the child isn't able but because unfortunately it is a big game & you have to play it to stand a chance of a place as so many children are being tutored for it. A friend's ds was not tutored on principle & didn't pass (a very bright child, near the top of the cohort but completely disadvantaged as had to spend so much more time reading questions than tutored children more familiar with format etc, no idea of time keeping etc). It was a total injustice! State schools give very little indication as to gs suitability & you do feel as if you're on your own with it. You have nothing to lose, any prep you do is at least helpful to the child (not like the previous test lol) & at the end of the day if they pass you have choices. If you decide gs is not the way to go once you've weighed up all your options then that's fine & there are plenty of good comps, but doing some prep puts your child in with a chance.


I'm sorry, I strongly disagree with you. I was adamant my daughter would not be tutored. It's too stressful and places too much pressure on them to pass. Why isn't there more importance placed on the mental wellbeing of our children instead?
As it turned out my daughter wanted to take the test to give her the option potentially. She was fine on the day and did the best she could using her natural ability. This is against some girls who were bawling their eyes out at the gates of HSFG and in pieces when they came out, desperate not to have let mum and dad down seeing as they'd spent so much money on a Tutor.
She passed and had offers from two schools. We opted for the one we felt she would fit in at best (with her agreement) and she got her first choice. Everyone is happy. And I'm pretty sure she will rise on her own merit from Year 7 onwards, not now facing a sinking feeling having been coached to pass an entrance test she wouldn't have otherwise.

Sorry folks, please don't tar everyone with the same brush of "you've got to tutor because everyone else is".


There is a big difference btw tutoring & hothousing! What I was saying is that however bright a child is, it helps to tutor (however little) especially in terms of time management & being aware of test formats. If your child sits the test & has done some tutoring then surely that is less stressful than taking it cold!?! I wasn't suggesting you hothouse from early ks2 & put loads of pressure on......it happens a lot sadly & that is what you are up against. So don't tar everyone with the same brush about 'tutoring'!!! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Exam marking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:10 pm
Posts: 44
Gotinonherownmerit, are you really saying that your dd did no practice papers or extra work at home at all? If not then that is the first time I have ever heard of a child passing without any prep at all so Well Done to her!!
On the other hand, I have always found this an honest site and one which is, on the whole, free of superiority. We all want the best for our children and we try hard to provide a happy learning environment whichever way we can.


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