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 Post subject: Appeal Process
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Location: On another planet called Gloucester!
Hi there - enquiry for a friend here....

I wondered if anybody knew how the appeals process worked in Gloucestershire...does it take the same format as in the other Counties detailed in the Appeals Section of this forum? Also does each School deal with them differently? If anybody has any experience of a Gloucestershire Appeal please could they help?

I am trying to persuade a friend that it may be worth her appealing but wanted to give her as much information as to what she may expect as possible.

Any information gratefully received.

B


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:07 pm 
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Location: Gloucester
Hi Burneth-all depends which school? If it is Crypt they run their own appeals,as do all the foundation schools.If it is a LA controlled school then they are run by legal services at Shire Hall.
After 1st April,if your request for another school has been unsuccessful the LA will send out details with that letter of the appeals process-I think you can contact them for advice before then-number on the GCC website.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Location: Gloucester
When the request is sent in to say that you would like to appeal for another school, is it possible for it to be granted without going to formal appeal?
By this I mean if you are appealing for an LA controlled Grammar school but have missed out on the pass mark ( just ) then can you be successful before it gets to the formal appeal stage?
Hope this is clear.... :?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:36 pm 
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I am not 100% certain but I think not-you have to go to formal appeal for a grammar school place.This is only because of the way that they admit pupils i.e. by competitive test.I suppose if you think about it,whats the point of the test if you can get in without passing and not go to appeal? (although I I know there are many extenuating circumstances,not wishing to offend anybody here!)

Other non grammars are different,if they have places tuened down they will accept from their waiting list without a formal appeal.

Hope this makes sense!

GM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Location: Gloucestershire
gloucestermum wrote:
I am not 100% certain but I think not-you have to go to formal appeal for a grammar school place.This is only because of the way that they admit pupils i.e. by competitive test.I suppose if you think about it,whats the point of the test if you can get in without passing and not go to appeal? (although I I know there are many extenuating circumstances,not wishing to offend anybody here!)


I'm not sure either. If the school your friend wanted was undersubscribed - and in the case of grammars that could mean less children passing the test than they have places - then they could try asking that school assuming that their child had a score => pass mark. This would not be an appeal, but a late request for admission (so to speak).

[quote = "sem"]By this I mean if you are appealing for an LA controlled Grammar school but have missed out on the pass mark ( just ) then can you be successful before it gets to the formal appeal stage? "

Surely you'd have to appeal properly for this.

Some other counties do strange things... Kent seem to hold back some places for 'headteachers review' which are not proper appeals - the heads
ask for cases to be reconsidered if they are surprised the child didn't pass. Bucks have their 'Order of Suitability' that the heads draw up before the 11+ is taken. Here in Glos, all places (according to the PAN) are filled by those who pass, then there's the joint angst of waiting lists & appeals.

I would recommend that it's worth appealing, assuming your friend has a 'reasonable' case. Which school?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:29 pm 
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It would be for Crypt...he didn't quite achieve the pass mark but that isn't really a reflection on his ability and he may have some of those extenuating circumstances that are talked about.

I would imagine it would include an interview in front of a panel? I just wondered whether you would need head teacher's support and all the rest that seems to be required in other Counties or it would simply be a matter of proving a child would flourish in a grammar by talking with the panel and perhaps showing examples of work and/or school reports?

I think the word "appeal" is a scary prospect and really I just wanted to reassure my friend that perhaps it wouldn't be as bad an experience as she thinks and she has nothing to lose by trying.

The other query is that as he failed to get the pass mark she didn't put it down as one of the choices...would that mean she isn't eligible for an appeal?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:57 pm 
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Check with admissions re the fact the school was not on his choices.I was told by them that even if I didn't put Tommies down as a choice,when I found out the score I could appeal as it was my "legal right"-not sure how this would work with a foundation school however.

Crypt appeals-in previous years they have asked the boys to resit the test! Also a piece of literacy work to be given to the appeal panel.I would ring Sue Wales the admissions officer-she must surely know!

GM


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:04 pm 
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Oh yes - I have read that somewhere too...thanks for the reminder!

It's a good idea to have a re-sit of the exam and hopefully that would prove ability or otherwise.

Will pass this on...might email the school directly and see if they have any further information about it.

I think it is logical that you should be able to appeal whether or not the choice was put on the form...the fact the results were given beforehand would have stopped a lot of people bothering to put down a GS if their DC failed to reached the standard for that school.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:14 pm 
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Location: Gloucestershire
Burneth wrote:
he may have some of those extenuating circumstances that are talked about.


That's what you need.

Quote:
I would imagine it would include an interview in front of a panel? I just wondered whether you would need head teacher's support and all the rest that seems to be required in other Counties or it would simply be a matter of proving a child would flourish in a grammar by talking with the panel and perhaps showing examples of work and/or school reports?


It's not an interview as such, as that is just 2 sided - this is an appeal - parents vs. school, with the panel in the middle balancing each side. We really do our best to make the parents relaxed, and we do our best to draw out information that they may not think was worth saying. It's not normal for the child to attend. The parents can bring a friend along if they're not confident, but a professional advisor shouldn't be necessary (and I've never seen one at any appeal I've been at).

Officially, head teachers are discouraged by the county from supporting appeals. Some choose to ignore that advice, but 'support' tends to be in the form of a letter. The panel is independent from both County & Parents, so if a heads letter is presented to us, we can choose to look at it. It has been known for these references to be quite interesting (everyone involved in the appeal will get to see it) - some are genuinely glowing references, some are vertually identical year in, year out for all pupils from that school, and some say more by what they don't say ("Julie is brilliant at football and netball, and enjoys cross country. She's also great at art" doesn't say that she's great academically)!

Some of the grammars also send out a little proforma that the school can send back to the appeal which states expected SAT scores, any other test results, and attitude / ability in different subjects. There can also be a space for teacher comments. I've known 2 appeals for children

Quote:
I think the word "appeal" is a scary prospect and really I just wanted to reassure my friend that perhaps it wouldn't be as bad an experience as she thinks and she has nothing to lose by trying.


Yep, some people are in tears when they come in, or during the interview. I'd be reluctant to accept blame, as my jokes are not that bad. But we do understand how pressurised parents feel and don't judge on the quality of the presentation or the emotional state of the parents. I'd say we get one crying parent per 15 appeals. That said, by the end of the appeal, they tend to be happier, as they can tell we're genuinely interested in what they have to say, and on the most part, sympathetic to their plight.

We also have some appeals where there's a lot of laughter - and why not?

She has nothing to loose by appealing, but she must make sure that she's accepted a place before the appeal, otherwise she could end up in deep doo-doos. She doesn't have to tell her son or the other school, so there really is nothing to loose.

Quote:
The other query is that as he failed to get the pass mark she didn't put it down as one of the choices...would that mean she isn't eligible for an appeal?
She can apply late, I think, and lodge an appeal. Talk to the school or county admissions team.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:23 pm 
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Thanks Capers...I will pass all this on and I am sure those potential Gloucestershire appellants lurking on the forum will have found what you have said very reassuring as well.


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