comparing different regions

janel · Post by **janel** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:36 pm

I have the opportunity to choose to work and live in one of three areas. Aside from other considerations I am trying to find a way to compare the chances of a grammar school place for my daughter in each area but have no idea how to work this out!
One area has only one possible school which offers 93 places and has in excess of 700 applicants but no catchment area.
Cheltenham is another possibility which APPEARS to offer the chance to try for 4 grammar schools . At first sight this appears ot offer a greater chance of a place but I am sure it is not that simple!! Please can anyone suggest how to go about comparing different regions

KenR · Post by **KenR** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:58 pm

Hi Janel

The easiest method is probably to look at the average Age Standardised score per paper or each particular school.

For the vast majority of Regions/LEAs/Schools, the average Age Standardised score corresponds to a particular percentile pass e.g. 117 corresponds to the 87th percentile.

So for example in Birmingham, the pass score for the most difficult KE Foundation grammar (Camp Hill Boys) is about 347 which is an average of 3 x 116 which is the 86th percentile. Hence the change of getting in is 14% or 1 in 7.14.

On the other extreme, statistically it's relatively easier for Girls to get in to KE Handsworth - the typical pass mark being around 318 or 3 x 106. 106 is the 66th percentile, so the chance of getting in is 34% or 1 in 3.

The only situation when you can't use this approach is for Bucks or LEAs that Age Standardise against a National Sample rather than the cohort. For the former the pass rates are pulished on the Bucks LEA web site.

See http://www.nfer.ac.uk/research-areas/as ... -ranks.cfm for an article about standardisation.

gloucestermum · Post by **gloucestermum** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:14 pm

Welcome Janel,
I have no statistical answer to your question!
Cheltenham children have only 1 school-Pates which is mixed.However there are 3 schools in Gloucestershire for each gender if you don't mind travelling.
At the open evenings last autumn the head of 1 school said that their intake was roughly equivalent to the top 40% -that is not say that 40% of Gloucestershire children would get a place as there are not enough places.But unlike other LA's where you probably need to be in the top 25% of the cohort,a child of above average ability would probably pass the 11+ in Gloucestershire(with help and preparation obviously!).
As you will see from other threads Pates is the most difficult school to get a place at-approx 900 applicants for 120 places.
Hope this has made sense! It may help if you can post the other areas you are interested in to get some expert opinions!

GM

capers123 · Post by **capers123** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:48 pm

gloucestermum wrote: At the open evenings last autumn the head of 1 school said that their intake was roughly equivalent to the top 40% -that is not say that 40% of Gloucestershire children would get a place as there are not enough places.But unlike other LA's where you probably need to be in the top 25% of the cohort,a child of above average ability would probably pass the 11+ in Gloucestershire(with help and preparation obviously!).

I'm surprised by that - looking at the number & intake of other secondary schools, it feels like less than 40% for the Stroud grammars - There's Archway, Maidenhill, Thomas Keble, Sir William Romney, and even Deerpark over in Ciren & the Dursley area schools . That's not counting the privates (normal & Steiner).

Anyway, welcome Janel. If you don't mind your child commuting, then maybe Painswick or a village between Stroud / Gloucester. There are children from Stroud who go to the Gloucester & Cheltenham grammars & vice versa.

Why not spend the weekend up here? Have a nose round Stroud on a Saturday morning (award winning Farmers Market), for lunch you can choose from Wholefood or veggie or organic. Or Polish/Italian, good chinese, or one of loads of other little cafes. I'm told that some even sell meat! There is a MacDonalds, but many locals prefer the service in Burger Star (a small chain).

gloucestermum · Post by **gloucestermum** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:10 am

I think the head was referring to the top 40% in the ability range-this is backed up on their website too!!

The scale of marks which can be achieved ranges from about 70 up to 140. The average score for a child who is of mid-range ability within a whole Year group is 100. Children must score 105 or above in each test to be considered for a place at Sir Thomas Richâ€™s.

As an approximate guide this equates to about the top 40% of the ability range. It is probably roughly equal to a mark of around 75% in practice tests.

Although I would think you would need more than 75% in practice to get a place at Tommies!

janel · Post by **janel** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:46 pm

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my query, I am still trying to compare statistical chances of a place in different areas.
I am still investigating and wonder if anyone has enough local knowledge to help with a further query please. I am a non driver owing to disability. and would need to re locate to the Cheltenham area in order to get to work; my daughter would try for places at Pate's , and the girls' grammar schools in Gloucester and Stroud. If she was offered a place in Stroud or Gloucester, are there any safe and realistic transport options available to her from Cheltenham since she would not have anyone available to drive her to or from school/ station etc

Any information most gratefully received as it is very difficult to sort transport out in an unfamiliar area without a car driver. We are adept users of public transport but that is not always feasible on a daily basis.

gloucestermum · Post by **gloucestermum** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:49 pm

Janel,you may want to contact the individual schools after the holidays and ask them what transport they have from Cheltenham-I imagine public transport would be OK from anywhere in Cheltenham to Pates but not 100% sure!

GM

janel · Post by **janel** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:04 pm

I have tried to follow up the suggestions made so far but am still unable to work out where there are the best chances of a grammar school place. Only one school gave me an age standardised score, the rest said it was either decided at county level and varied from year to year or depended on the cohort. Any more ideas please? I am sure someone else must have worked this out already!!

yoyo123 · Post by **yoyo123** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:44 am

move to the far South East, we have loads of grammars here!

mum3 · Post by **mum3** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:17 pm

My daughter went to the High School for Girls from Cheltenham and there are buses that transport girls and boys from Cheltenham to the Gloucester grammar schools (ie Sir Thomas Riches and High School for Girls). When my daughter was given her place they sent all the information through re bus timetables. They stop at a number of places throughout the town and they take boys and girls.There are also buses from out of town as well I think which may be privately run. However, you DO have to pay, if you are travelling from Chelt to Glos as it is deemed you are not accepting your most local school, if you see what I mean. It was several hundred pounds for the year I think and the buses were operated by Bennetts bus co. in Gloucester. This was several years ago but I am sure they still run. My daughter transferred to Pates in the 6th form and my two boys also went/go to Pates. There is a free bus to Pates from Cheltenham and surrounding areas if you live a certain distance away from the school, can't remember the exact distance, poss 3 miles., but i think you can still catch the bus and pay if you live nearer. We relatively near to the town centre (nr Charlton Kings) and we just qualify for the free bus. Basically transport will not be a problem but you will have to pay from Chelt to Glos, but you prob won't have to pay if you get a place at Pates unless you live very near to the school (in which case you can walk!!).