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 Post subject: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 384
Location: Harrow
A friend who's applying for HBS also want to apply to Bentley Wood (Harrow)

it states

e) Random computer selection
After pupils under a) to d) have been allocated
places, if there are more applications remaining
than places available, a random selection is made
by computer. A random selection will be made
separately for each ranked preference (i.e. 1st,
2nd, 3rd & so on).


a to d being siblings etc.

to both of us it seems to imply that the position you put this school in your preference will effect the outcome, So putting HBS 1st seems to reduce your chances of getting into Bentley Wood.
although earlier on in Harrows Secondary School booklet it states


Harrow uses an equal preference system.
This means that on the CAF you will
be asked to list six schools, ranked in order
of preference.
Each of your preferences is treated as a separate
application. Each admission authority will work
out how well you qualify for each school using the
admission rules. If you qualify for a place in more
than one school, you will be offered the one you
gave the highest ranking. The order of preference
given on the CAF will remain confidential between
you and Harrow Council. Harrow will only let other
councils know the order of preference in cases
where your child is eligible for a place at more
than one school in that council’s area so that they
can determine which school you have ranked
highest.


So are we reading this wrong, or is harrow contradicting itself?

thanks
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
Posts: 8117
Trouble is if you don't put:
1) Bentley Wood
2) HBS (and pass)

if you are given a place at BW then you won't be offered a place at HBS..

Presumably some of this will depend on how oversubscribed BW is and how many places are left after a-d?

edit: just had a look - seems that 144 get in on the random allocation with 34 on sections A-D. Also ALL 142 who put it first got an offer .. ?? does this mean that there wasn't any randomising for the 1st pref places... ?


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 384
Location: Harrow
hermanmunster wrote:
Trouble is if you don't put:
1) Bentley Wood
2) HBS (and pass)

if you are given a place at BW then you won't be offered a place at HBS..


exactly the problem

hermanmunster wrote:
Presumably some of this will depend on how oversubscribed BW is and how many places are left after a-d?

edit: just had a look - seems that 144 get in on the random allocation with 34 on sections A-D. Also ALL 142 who put it first got an offer .. ?? does this mean that there wasn't any randomising for the 1st pref places... ?


where did you get that info?

The main issue is that this seems to conflict with the 'equal preference system'.
what they should do is take all applicants no matter what their preference, randomly rank them, and then allocate places based on that, skipping any who chosen to go else where.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
Posts: 8117
SteveDH wrote:
hermanmunster wrote:
Presumably some of this will depend on how oversubscribed BW is and how many places are left after a-d?

edit: just had a look - seems that 144 get in on the random allocation with 34 on sections A-D. Also ALL 142 who put it first got an offer .. ?? does this mean that there wasn't any randomising for the 1st pref places... ?


where did you get that info?

The main issue is that this seems to conflict with the 'equal preference system'.
what they should do is take all applicants no matter what their preference, randomly rank them, and then allocate places based on that, skipping any who chosen to go else where.

Steve


Can see the problem! info came from page 15: http://www.harrow.gov.uk/downloads/file ... 12_booklet


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 384
Location: Harrow
ahh thanks, I had looked at the booklet but missed that.
thanks
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:49 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 182
Stevedh,

I do think there is a contradiction as on the one hand Harrow council says the order of preference is between parents and the council, but on the other, bentley wood do seem to know what position their school was in the list.
And I do know that of the girls from my dd's school who put the school on the form,two got in- one had ranked it first and the other, I think, third. So they seem to allocate a proportion for each preference.


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 384
Location: Harrow
the friend had a talk with harrow, and it seems that Bentley Wood is a special case and it does allocate positions based on preference, and as mentioned before, out of 44 spaces available for random allocation, all the 42 applicants with 1st place preference got a place the remaining 2 being randomly allocated to 2nd place applicants.
which does kind of leave them in a dilemma as putting HBS 1st pretty much guarantees you wont get into Bentley Wood, and putting HBS 2nd means you're unlikely to get into HBS even if you pass the exams.

I personally think Harrow are wrong in this and they should be consistent with all their schools as having exceptions makes a mockery of the system.. my opinion anyway.

thanks
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
Posts: 8117
I am quite surprised that the school can know the order of preference. I am sure someone who understand the rules on this will be able to comment about it. Also that they seemed to have given ALL the 1st place applicants and only 2 of the second place - not terribly random I don't think..


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 182
I think the 'random' bit only refers to the address - all other schools in Harrow allocate on the basis of distance. Bentley wood allocate on the order of preference it appears.


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 Post subject: Re: Preference
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Buckinghamshire
I have been pondering on this issue. My conclusion is that the process must (should?) be the same as here in Bucks and elsewhere, and the random allocation is possibly a bit of a red herring.

On the CAF the parent will list grammar schools first, followed by upper schools. If the child fails to qualify in the 11+ the grammar preferences are automatically discounted and the highest preference upper school becomes the new first preference.

Therefore, Steve, your friend should list HBS first and Bentley Wood second, subject to checking (in writing) with Harrow council that this is indeed the process that will be applied.


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