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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:59 am 
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Location: Herts
By application the following schools are the Top Ten Secondary Schools in Herts:

1. Parmiters 1410 for 186 7.58 apps per place.
2. Hockerill 610 for 70 6.17 apps per place.
3. Dame Alice Owen's 6.08 apps per place.
4. Rickmansworth 4.62
5. Beaumont St Albans 4.58
6. Queens Bushey 4.49
7. Hemel Hempstead 4.49
8. Simon Balle Hertford 4.40
9. Sandringham St Albans 4.39
10. Watford Boys 4.27

I am surprised to see non selective comprehensives such as Simon Balle, Sandringham and Beaumont beating Watford Boys. But it is the only single gender school in the list so it must because of all those girls who can't apply. DG


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:21 am 
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That is quite surprising. It would be really interesting to know the ratio for the academic places.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:27 am 
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Where did you get the data from?

I've been trying to find out application numbers for St Clement Danes - the numbers that applied and the numbers that were successful for 2nd round music audition. Any idea where I can get this?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:08 pm 
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The figures are rather misleading in that they don't take account of how many of these were first preferences and how many of these were lower down; DAO, for example, probably featured somewhere on the lists of a number of those living in London boroughs who can put down 6 choices - but not necessarily at the top. Hockerill is boarding, I be;lieve, so has no admissions area. etc.

In the case of the Watford Grammar schools, the numbers applying will be lower because they are single sex; but as the only non-private selective single-sex schools in the area, I'd hazard a guess that a much higher proportion of applicants put them first, as for parents who prefer single-sex education, there are no local options (HBS and QE are too far away for most of those within the catchment)>

Without knowing how many of those applicants put the school first, and indeed, how many of those also applied to private schools, the figures on their own can tell one very little. They certainly do NOT give any indication that these are the 'top' Herts schools, either in popularity or attainment.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:31 pm 
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Location: Herts
herty wrote:
The figures are rather misleading in that they don't take account of how many of these were first preferences and how many of these were lower down.....

.............. They certainly do NOT give any indication that these are the 'top' Herts schools, either in popularity or attainment.


To be fair, I think Daogroupie made it clear that these were the top schools by application. I'm not sure I agree that a higher number of applicants would have put the Grammars first (although of course their position on the list is naturally odd looking because of the gender issue). I know many people who put one of the Grammars 'lower' because they didn't want to put one of the unpopular schools. I ranked WGSG second for my DD, who preferred Parmiter's, and WGSB third for my son (who I knew would go to Parmiter's under the sibling rule).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:59 am 
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Location: Herts
Thank you Tense, I thought I did make it quite clear. The first two words of my post were "By Application" I even put in the number of apps per place which showed the reason for the rankings. I agree with you about the London boroughs with their lovely six choices bumping the rankings but they would also bump the ranks of the Watford schools but would not waste a choice on St Albans schools that only have distance application which makes their top slots even more surprising. The Hockerill listing is for the 70 day places, not for the boarding places. They only have a small number of boarding places like St Georges in Harpenden. I just thought it was interesting looking at Herts from another point of view rather than our "selective" view! DG


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:26 pm 
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I guess your numbers are for Comp. schools only not all Secondary schools in Herts (Indies will have very low ratios in any case as not many apply)

QEB seems to have had more applicants than Parmiters in 2011... surprising given that QEB is boys only! (perhaps the "no-catchment" policy compensates for it)

from (http://www.barnet.gov.uk/a-guide-to-sec ... t-2012.pdf)

Admission limit 180
Age range 11 – 18
Students on roll 1180
Number of applications for entry to Year 7 in 2011: 1417

...which makes it a ratio of 7.87 :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:49 pm 
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Tense, I know a number of people who put Watford Grammar first and others in the consortium lower or not at all; this is to be expected as my dd goes to Watford Grammar!

But my experience and yours are just anecdotes, and prove nothing.

Logically, though, those who wish to send their dc to a good co-ed school have a very large choice - I know many people who applied to both Parmiters and DAO, for example, as the catchments overlap. Plus numerous excellent comps. But speaking as someone who was very keen for my dd to go single sex, I had a choice of only 2 selectives - WG and HBS. And only 1 non-selective, STAGS, whose catchment does not overlap with the other two (well, HBS has no catchment but I don't think anyone would seriously commute from St Albans to Hamstead Garden Suburb daily!).

So I can assure you that if you feel strongly about single-sex education, as I and many other parents of girls do, you really do have no other choice. Unless you can afford private.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:50 pm 
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Oh, and Daogroupie, I quite agree that your post is clear; your title, however, is somewhat misleading.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:39 pm 
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Location: Herts
herty wrote:
The figures are rather misleading in that they don't take account of how many of these were first preferences and how many of these were lower down; DAO, for example, probably featured somewhere on the lists of a number of those living in London boroughs who can put down 6 choices - but not necessarily at the top. Hockerill is boarding, I be;lieve, so has no admissions area. etc.

Hockerill has a language aptitude test for some day places and given the school's credentials in this, I would expect large numbers of applications. The places that are more oversubscribed are the day ones, most of the children in Bishops Stortford aim for it. They also have a sort of feeder system for some local primaries. They have the IB middle years program, a very unique point. It's also a small school which probably also helps to get to a high ratio of applications per places.
herty wrote:
Without knowing how many of those applicants put the school first, and indeed, how many of those also applied to private schools, the figures on their own can tell one very little. They certainly do NOT give any indication that these are the 'top' Herts schools, either in popularity or attainment.

In some cases, they indicate they stand out well ahead of the other local choices.
And the London factor with the 6 choices will skew it as well.


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