Does tutoring actually do any good?

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honeybun11
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:33 pm

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by honeybun11 »

Some of the research on this is summarised here: http://www.nfer.ac.uk/nfer/research/ass ... n-plus/#10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The gist of it is that a bit of practice and/or coaching (two different things) is good for the NVR/VR papers, but that (perhaps unsurprisingly) there is a law of diminishing returns.
Honeybun x
maddad
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Location: Herts

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by maddad »

herty wrote:maddad - I wonder if one of the 2 children your wife tutored had done similar papers before eg Bond etc, hence the lack of improvement, versus the other who was a genuine VR or NVR virgin?
One was our son, the other his school friend and we know both had no previous exposure to VR/NVR tests.
herty wrote:I have read stuff, as I said, that directly contradicts maddad's anecdote - ie that in IQ-type tests, initial familarisation with the tests leads to (I think, from memory) around an 8% (??) uplift on average - but years of further tutoring make no difference at all.
I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying is that unlike IQ tests, there is a limit to how well you can do at the VR tests ( limit = all correct). If you're already doing very well at them, there isn't much tutoring can improve on. Whereas tutoring is more beneficial if you haven't quite got a grasp of some of the techniques.
However, you have to have a certain level of ability to start with, since tutoring can only help so much.
maddad
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Location: Herts

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by maddad »

chapuza wrote:Yep, we've gone for Parmiter's
Good choice 8) - we were in an almost identical situation and chose Parmiter's - see you at the Curriculum Evening on the 22nd!
chapuza
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:51 pm

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by chapuza »

maddad wrote:see you at the Curriculum Evening on the 22nd!
Ha! We can't go as DS has a concert. Bad attendance before we've started!
yoyo123
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Location: East Kent

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by yoyo123 »

Sutton trust have done research into the effectiveness of interventions including 1:1 tuition
eta: this was in a school setting.
menagerie
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 9:37 pm

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by menagerie »

How can it not have an effect? Tutoring, aka teaching, children anything improves their knowledge and ability to handle the subjects in question. With regard to VR and NVR - they're not taught at many state primaries, so familiarisation with types of question and techniques for answering are crucial to a child's success. We may as well ask - does teaching spelling help children to write? A bright child will not grasp unphonetic spelling unless encouraged to, and taught some of the rules that apply.

But that's my opinion and not research! :D
lara228
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:23 am

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by lara228 »

Does tutoring do any good? That depends on what 'good' you are looking for and what form of 'tutoring' is taking place.

My DS goes to an allegedly good State junior school but I now realise that it's excellent SAT results are attained not by the teaching at the school but by the fact that nearly 50% of the children are tutored at least from year 5 onwards. The entrance exams for Independent schools require creative writing and comprehension at a level far higher than was being taught in year 5/start of year 6 even though DS was in top ability group. So, without his tutor he would not have got through his entrance exams for Independent schools. As for selective State schools - his State junior will not introduce any VR and NVR into the curriculum so external tutoring is a must. We used a paid tutor simply because I do not have the patience to teach and my DS does not respond well to my attempts at explaining things to him - which is why it is not my chosen career.
herty
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:23 pm

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by herty »

honeybun11 wrote:Some of the research on this is summarised here: http://www.nfer.ac.uk/nfer/research/ass ... n-plus/#10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The gist of it is that a bit of practice and/or coaching (two different things) is good for the NVR/VR papers, but that (perhaps unsurprisingly) there is a law of diminishing returns.
Honeybun x
Thanks, honeybun!

This basically backs up my post above, from your link:

"The research also found diminishing returns with increased practice and coaching. For example the practice gain between the first and second sessions was usually as great as the total benefit from all further practice. This research went on to suggest that there is no significant gain after about five practice sessions and that there is no significant benefit from more than a few hours of coaching. Furthermore the typical gains in test scores resulting from practice were in the region of 4 to 5 standardised score points and the gains in score resulting from coaching were also around 4 to 5 standardised score points. "

It then goes on to discus the N Ireland research which was mentioned aboved which it criticises as:

"The research did not incorporate multi level modelling to take account of the hierarchical nature of the data. Also, without a comparison group it is difficult to know whether some of the long term benefits of coaching might just be attributable to normal child development. "

So basically making exactly the same points that we speculated about maddad's expeience. What a clever lot we are!


So, in short, if in doubt, the research suggests that making your child do years of Kumon, 3 practice papers a day, hours with tutors each week etc achieves absolutely nothing.

Just make sure they know the yr 6 maths curriculum, give them plenty of good books to read, give them a few practice papers to go through - and if they still don't get through, it will be because they had a bad day not because you failed to spend an arm and a leg on tutors...
lara228
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Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by lara228 »

herty wrote: So, in short, if in doubt, the research suggests that making your child do years of Kumon, 3 practice papers a day, hours with tutors each week etc achieves absolutely nothing.

Just make sure they know the yr 6 maths curriculum, give them plenty of good books to read, give them a few practice papers to go through - and if they still don't get through, it will be because they had a bad day not because you failed to spend an arm and a leg on tutors...
Sorry but I disagree and I'm sure if I had the time (and inclination) I could find some research that stated the absolute opposite. In a perfect world all schools would be equal, all children well educated and this forum would be defunct, however, in the real world, we are all on this forum because we want to choose the best for our children and in this imperfect world that means stiff competition for a shortage of good school places and the need for our children to be in a position to compete. Prep schools may prepare their pupils adequately for this trial, State schools do not and additional help is required.
herty
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:23 pm

Re: Does tutoring actually do any good?

Post by herty »

I agree, lara, but it depends what you mean by "additional help".

I'm not advocating that people do no preparation at all and walk in cold, and nor am I stating that state school education is perfect. (My dd had barely covered year 5 maths let alone year 6 by the time of the exams and clearly if you haven't learned what a 'perimeter' is and how to calculate it, no amount of 'common sense' or cleverness is going to help - no-one is expecting 10-11 year olds to reinvent maths from first principles...).

What I am advocating though, is that for a child who has been to a reasonable bog standard school and who has had support from home throughout school (eg reading, talking to parents, board games etc) then it is not necessary or desirable to 'cram' them with facts and techniques for 12+ months prior to the exam. Even teaching the maths curriculum doesn't take very long - I taught my dd in 3 months and that was a long way off full-time and I'm no mathematician or maths teacher.

Don't forget that there is a whole, very lucrative, industry that has grown up around teaching for the 11+ - people have a very strong, vested interest in persuading you that if you don't get paid tutors/materials then you will fail your child and your child will fail.

I don't believe that to be the case, and the research agrees with me; if you have different research, please provide it.

EDIT: Just to add, lara, re your previous post, that creative writing and comprehension skills are best taught by reaing and then copying what you read. No specialist teaching is required at all. Those of you who have read my previous posts know that this approach worked very well for me and I never cease to be amazed at people who fail to grasp that the best way to understand what is said in books is to read them! Not aimed at you lara, but at this forum in general! May contain nuts, indeed...
Last edited by herty on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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