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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:42 am 
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Looking at the schools information in the schools section of this website and came across this comment in the 11+ Test Types section of the Latymer School entry:

The CEM verbal reasoning test tends to be more like an English paper and not like the usual verbal reasoning.

What's the difference?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:15 am 
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You would do better posting this in the specialist CEM section where you will have access to parents from all over the country who have been preparing for CEM or have students who have already sat a CEM exam. CEM Verbal reasoning is very focused on synonyms and antonyms and cloze passages which are all questions that are most suited to those with a strong vocab. CEM Numerical reasoning is maths based. DG


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:21 am 
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I have moved this to CEM , as Daogroupie says, you will get more answers here


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:24 am 
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OK. I am really trying to compare different exam types rather than focusing on CEM. And, although my original question is quite general, I am really focusing on three schools in North London/SW Herts- QE Boys, Latymer and DAO.

With the wealth of information available on this website, I still find it difficult to understand how different the content of the different exam types can be. That is aside from the obvious like DAO has an extended writing element in English that neither QE Boys and Latymer have in their exams.

So DAO has a Verbal Reasoning test and also an English test that contains comprehension and extended writing. QE Boys has GL Assessment English and Latymer has CEM verbal reasoning that this website comments is more like English. So, aside from the extended writing at DAO, what's the difference?

Moving on to what I think of as Maths. DAO has a Maths test, QE Boys has a Maths test and Latymer has a Numerical and Non Verbal Reasoning test. Is the scope of any one of these schools' tests greater than the others? Is it only Latymer that includes non verbal reasoning?

Note to mod. Maybe you want to move this to the Hertfordshire section? I'll go for the prize of having the same post appearing in the most sections. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:30 am 
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Hang on....! Off we go

:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:14 pm 
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These are three different exams and you would do better decide which one is your first choice and focus on it. Latymer is 100% CEM and QE boys and DAO have no CEM at all. Latymer has NVR questions and DAO and QE do not. QE boys is 100% Multiple choice and DAO has no multiple choice at all. Having said that in my opinion if you have prepared well it is reasonably straight forward to be ready for DAO and QE at the same time as you have three weeks after the last DAO exam to immerse yourself in MC as the students I know will be doing. However even though these students are preparing for both they are clear which one is their main choice.

The DAO English paper is the most different of them all. A standard format English comprehension paper where the candidate must express themselves clearly exposes any weaknesses that are hidden when the only requirement is to tick a box. The creative writing which is half of the marks on the English paper is another area which is different to anything on the QE and Latymer papers. To try and prepare for all three is to risk falling between three stools but there are plenty of students doing this right now. In six weeks time we will find out how many managed it. DG


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:16 pm 
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I wrote a lengthy reply on Monday evening and lost it all when I submitted the post. :( So I'll try again, but not so lengthy.

What I'm really trying to understand is what would the syllabus be, if there was one, for these exams. The Latymer information in the schools section mentions "Competence in Maths and English skills KS2 is required.". Is that the same for DAO and QE Boys, irrespective of the way they choose to test.

So, apart from Latymer including NVR as part of their Numerical/NVR test, do the three schools test similar things as part of their Maths? What would the reasons be for a very capable maths student not sitting all three?

Really have the same question for English/Verbal Reasoning. Daogroupie makes it quite clear how different DAO is in terms of extended writing not being part of Latymer and QE Boys tests and the more difficult comprehension as it's not multi choice. But how different are Latymer's Verbal Reasoning, QE Boys English and DAO's Verbal Reasoning? Is the prep strategy as simple as preparing for DAO exams as that would be cover the content and standard required for Latymer and QE Boys? Or is that far too simplistic?

We've got more than a year to decide, but, right now, Latymer is first choice, following by DAO then QE Boys.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:45 pm 
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A strong maths student could probably get a great score on these three maths papers. But even 100% in the Maths papers of these three schools would not be enough to get you a place at any of them without a strong score in the English/VR as well. This is why it has become more challenging to secure a place at all three schools because there are so many different skills to nail to cover all that is being asked. This is why I would recommend that you really focus on one and keep the other two on the back burner. A standard format English paper is quite different to having the five possible answers right in front of you and continue the story creative writing is another set of skills again. Spreading yourself this thin could be a risky strategy. DG


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