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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:23 am
Posts: 222
Hi from a newby.

DS is in yr 5, so only 6 months away from school entrance exams. I've recently started browsing this forum and discovered the mind bending delights of the standardised scoring system!

We live in a bit of a no man's land - too far E for WBGS and too far W for DAO. So selective school options come down to QEB and the tiny "any other postcode" allocation at Parmiters. But, as noted in a recent thread in this section, last year's out-of catchment cutoff for Parmiters was 279.

So my question is, as an Autumn child, is it possible for DS to actually get a standardised score of 279/280 - even if by some miracle he gets a raw score of 100%? I've read the guidance on standardised scoring on this and the NFER websites, but can't find a definitive answer.

This is a largely hypothetical question, but I thought I'd ask the experts on the forum just so we know whether to completely write-off Parmiters.

Thanks in advance


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:57 pm 
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Location: Herts
It is out of 282 not 280 and Clement Danes allocate 21 academic places so it is worth applying there. Last mark to get in allocation day was 248 and it will go lower before Sept. DG


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:06 pm
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thisisnuts wrote:
Hi from a newby.

DS is in yr 5, so only 6 months away from school entrance exams. I've recently started browsing this forum and discovered the mind bending delights of the standardised scoring system!

We live in a bit of a no man's land - too far E for WBGS and too far W for DAO. So selective school options come down to QEB and the tiny "any other postcode" allocation at Parmiters. But, as noted in a recent thread in this section, last year's out-of catchment cutoff for Parmiters was 279.

So my question is, as an Autumn child, is it possible for DS to actually get a standardised score of 279/280 - even if by some miracle he gets a raw score of 100%? I've read the guidance on standardised scoring on this and the NFER websites, but can't find a definitive answer.

This is a largely hypothetical question, but I thought I'd ask the experts on the forum just so we know whether to completely write-off Parmiters.

Thanks in advance


I think it is theoretically possible for any child to get the maximum standardised score but it will depend on the rest of the cohort scores. If, as an Autumn DC your DS gets a raw score a certain number of marks higher than anyone else it is possible.

For example if we assume the standardisation has the effect of dropping a Sept 1st DC score by 5 marks (this is a complete guess by the way).

Next we assume that a DC gets a raw score 5 marks or more than anyone else (actual score does not matter, just where it is relative to the others).

Finally when they apply the age normalisation and mark standardisation, DC will still be top due to a raw score being top even with the removed 5 marks for being the oldest. Therefore they will receive the highest standardised score of 282.

At least that's what I think could happen. In reality, very unlikely as raw scores are typically very high especially for the top schools almost regardless of age so a 31st August DC will beat an equally smart 1st Sept DC with the same raw score.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:47 am 
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DG and Cutting42, thanks for the replies.

DG: 279/280 would seem to be the required target. I was wondering if even that was possible for an Autumn born DC, let alone the absolute max of 282.

According to Cutting42, it may theoretically be possible if DS significantly outperforms the entire cohort! This would be even more of a miracle than actually getting a raw score of 100% in the first place - so I'm not holding my breath.

SCD is seriously inconvenient. He'd have to take 2 tubes to get to Chorleywood and then according to the school's website, face a 25 minute uphill walk. Whilst I'd be happy for him to get the exercise :), it would take a bit too much out of him before he even got to school.

Does the SCD coach service not have a final pickup from the station??


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:45 am 
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If all the scores are high that will make less difference to the standardisation score as the averages, 100, are far more likely to be similar for a September or August child. It has been suggested by another forum member that although the maths paper is re-standardised each year based on the cohort the VR is not; I would be surprised if that is true but if it is it may skew the process slightly. Of course if any child got 100% on the papers they would be awarded the full standardised score regardless of the month they are born in as the standard deviations are measured between the average and full marks. It is a common misconception that a winter born child cannot score full marks.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:12 pm 
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Where abouts do you live. If in middle as seems, the st albans schools plus queens and bushey meads options. See the north london section that covers qeb as other schools in london covered there. Stau more local better than lots travel. Or if think that super bright go for private scholarship, they run direct busses again closer


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:01 pm 
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And back to where I started!

I may have got a bit lost in the technicalities of Cutting42's and Hera's replies, but I don't think they can both be totally correct. I asked the question hoping for clarification, as I had come across both points of view elsewhere:

that 100% always equals 100% -vs- well, maybe not necessarily

I am genuinely grateful to people for taking the time to answer my question. Although I do feel sorry for the next newby who comes along, reads this thread, and ends up ever so slightly bewildered.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:21 pm 
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Thisisnuts calling madsystem

Are we all crazy to put our DCs through this, or do we have no choice?

We are in the badlands on the border of Barnet and Harrow, so not in priority area for Queens and probably not for St Albans either. Bushey Meads is the closest of the SW Herts schools, so DS will still sit the entrance exam.

When I first discovered the forum, I did dive headfirst into the N London section, which is when I came up with my username :)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm 
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standardisation is a nightmare to understand. With the age standardisation i dont think you get marks removed, you get marks added if you are young. so an august child can get a lower raw score and end up with the same age standardised score. The age standardisation is across the cohort of children sitting the test throughout the country and i think is actually done on test papers a few months before (a cohort from my dd school were chosen to sit papers about 4 months prior to the tests, they were definitely picked across the ability and age range rather than just the top set etc they were not questions on that years test but may be used in subsequent years or for different exam boards)
Once all the scores are in and the age adjustment made they then standardise the scores so that the average score ( for everyone sitting the test not just those in west herts) is 100 up to max of 141 and down to 59. ( if it was standardised just on those sitting the test in west herts then the same number of children each year would get the same score and the marks needed to get in would roughly be the same every year)
so yes your september child can get a full marks raw score and can get a full 141 on a standardised score.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:19 am 
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Location: Herts
Tash is good on standardisation. I will get Tash on the case.

Ref St Albans schools no chance unless in St Albans, they are more oversubscribed than some selectives. QE and Clement Danes your best bet. DG


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