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 Post subject: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:11 am
Posts: 103
Will be interesting to see:

a) if overall scores have gone up significantly this year - if so, would suggest the 'untutorable' test is not so untutorable.

b) I'd love to see a FOI request for average CEM marks for those who sat the CEM paper on the 10th Sept and for those who also sat for DAO and hence did that same paper a week earlier. If the marks in the later sitting are significantly higher, it would suggest there had been some cheating, eg tutors pumping students who did it on the 3rd for info, to pass on to their other charges. Any chance of this site asking for that information, given this year's unusual timings?


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm
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Location: Herts
The CEM paper was offered on a total of six different dates as both DAO and SW Herts offered two different CEM backup dates.

It is going to happen again next year as DAO has already announced their CEM and English exams will be on Friday 1st September and SW Herts always runs their main sitting on a Saturday. DG


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:40 pm 
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Thanks, Daogroupie.

Were the four back-up dates for just a handful of students? And have they already happened now?


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:39 am 
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Location: Herts
They have already happened. I know of a student who did one of them and was surprised how many there were. DG


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:35 pm
Posts: 34
rosetta wrote:
Will be interesting to see:

a) if overall scores have gone up significantly this year - if so, would suggest the 'untutorable' test is not so untutorable.

b) I'd love to see a FOI request for average CEM marks for those who sat the CEM paper on the 10th Sept and for those who also sat for DAO and hence did that same paper a week earlier. If the marks in the later sitting are significantly higher, it would suggest there had been some cheating, eg tutors pumping students who did it on the 3rd for info, to pass on to their other charges. Any chance of this site asking for that information, given this year's unusual timings?


Exactly the same paper? They can't have their own paper? Doesn't this make a mockery of the system? CEM paper that you refer to here, is that just the VR or both VR and Math?


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:52 pm 
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ccr - it was just the VR paper. That was sat by dcs who were applying to DAO on 3 Sept - the same paper was also sat by dcs applying to the Consortium on 10 Sept.

Yes, it is astonishing that they used the same paper a week apart for such a high stakes test!

See viewtopic.php?f=18&t=46879 for more discussion on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:10 pm 
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Yes it is astonishing indeed, given that the whole idea of changing the provider for VR was supposed to make it tutor proof. Here we have people who suggest that tutors might have gotten information regarding the last year's test and hence might have cracked it for this year's test. No need for that. Just sit the DAO test first and have a go before you do the same test next week for Herts consortium! I am sure many have done that and am not blaming them. No one is going to admit that here though.


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:19 pm 
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Location: Herts
Don't be silly. Nobody has been allowed to sit it twice and it is not that different than all the CEM Super Saturday CEMs which are exactly the same paper having their backup papers on different days and QE having 50 plus students sit exactly the same paper a week later, some not because they are sick but because they arrived late for the main sitting.

This is going to happen again next year and will carry on happening until CEM agree to write another paper.

The problem here was CEM refusing to provide a second different paper.

CEM say the paper is "robust" and no students can remember anything about it.

Two years ago Redbridge had the same paper 23 days later and Bucks use the same CEM paper all year round.

Welcome to the world of CEM where papers are so tutor proof that no student can remember a single thing about them! DG


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:56 pm 
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It's mad. For such a high-stakes test, there should definitely have been a second paper. If there was even a possibility of students remembering any of the questions.

I think the types of questions this year were less easy to memorise than in some CEM VR tests, in that - according to ds - there were fewer of the synonym/antonym type questions, where you either know the word or you don't, and it's easy to remember if you do, and easy for a tutor to pre-teach it.

But it's still lazy - presumably cost-cutting, as otherwise they'd have to pay for two papers. Plus I'm not sure how you standardise it fairly if you've only got a handful of candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: Analysis of scores
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:58 pm 
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How can Bucks possibly use the same paper all year round??! :shock:

What on earth is that supposed to test? Unless the dcs have just moved into the area from Australia, how on earth are they supposed to stop previous sitters discussing the questions?!


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