Go to navigation
It is currently Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:37 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Judd/Skinners Admissions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:57 am
Posts: 14
The Kent Admissions Forum have decided to discuss the admissions arrangements of Judd and Skinners in order to to decide whether or not the Forum wishes to refer the matter to the Schools' Adjudicator.

The meeting will be on Thursday 10th September at 10am at County Hall. The Forum is looking for up to four objectors either in person or in writing to make their case as to why the current admissions arrangements of the schools should be further investigated. This may be parents of children from West Kent allocated places this year in schools in East Kent or parents concerned about what may happen next year or in subsequent years.

Anybody interested in further details please drop me a PM.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Tonbridge & Tunbridge Wells
Great, this represents a real opportunity to try and sort out the mess that has been created by these 2 super selectives admissions arrangments in West Kent - whereby some West Kent children have to travel large distances out of the area to school, and some out of area children travel large distances into West Kent grammars :?

With the hope they see sense and introduce some form of sensible catchment area, thereby taking the strain off of TWGSB who always appear to be the fall guys with the current arrangements !

Good luck, hope it all goes well

Villagedad


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:43 pm
Posts: 523
Location: Twells
You may find interesting that TWGGS have 400 out of area children taking the 11+ on their premises this year, more than 100 more than usual. I know that TWGSB and Weald Grammar host these tests as well, if this increase is also at the other schools then that is an awful lot of out of area applicants!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
What is the Kent Admissions Forum? And what is the investigation?

I would like Skinners, TOGS and Judd admission policy to be investigated further, and also those of many other Kent grammar schools, and some community schools too.

I don't think that county boundaries (or any other geographical areas, boundaries etc) should be of any relevance whatsoever in school admission policies.

In my view a non-superselective should admit on the basis of 11+ pass, and crow-flies distance from the school. A super-selective should admit on the basis of score, with crow-flies distance being used in the event of tie-break.

Can I be one of the four volunteers for the investigation? Long-live the precedent set by the Greenwich agreement / judgement on cross-county children!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:09 am
Posts: 646
Mystery,

Why would you want Judd and Skinners admissions policy to be investigated further, when at the moment it is just how you wish it to be. I think they are looking for people that object to it, not agree with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Tonbridge & Tunbridge Wells
SSM wrote:
Mystery,

Why would you want Judd and Skinners admissions policy to be investigated further, when at the moment it is just how you wish it to be. I think they are looking for people that object to it, not agree with it.

SSM's right, the system you mention mystery (A super-selective should admit on the basis of score, with crow-flies distance being used in the event of tie-break) is how it is currently.

This has led to great problems for local West Kent kids having to be shipped out miles to GSs out of area/county, whilst high scoring out of area/county kids commute large distances into West Kent.., thus taking places from the local West Kent kids..

Surely Judd/Skinners/TOGS should have a system whereby a high proportion of their intake (80% +) would be kept for local children, like TWGGS and TWGSB do...? That way TWGSB wouldn't be swamped and have to open another form like they have had to this year..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Tonbridge & Tunbridge Wells
mystery wrote:
In my view a non-superselective should admit on the basis of 11+ pass, and crow-flies distance from the school. A super-selective should admit on the basis of score, with crow-flies distance being used in the event of tie-break.

Hi mystery

Just wanted to say that in principle I support your view about having an "as the crow flies" system rather than geographical areas, boundaries etc..

Problem lies with the super selectives when they admit firstly on the basis of score, as you then get lots of people applying (including lots from many miles away ie out of West Kent/area/county) with top scores of 418-420 which eats up a lot of the places for local kids (although local kids also get these top marks)..

Maybe if there was a system devised whereby places are allocated to those who achieve over a certain score (ie over 410), which are offered on an as the crow flies basis - ie someone who lives a mile away from the school and scores 410 would be better placed than someone who is 20 miles away who scores 420 - that could be an answer..?

Would like to know more about "the precedent set by the Greenwich agreement / judgement on cross-county children", which I must have missed..

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
Well I might be wrong but I thought that at least one of the three super-selectives do distinguish in their admission policies between children who live in Kent and those who do not, resulting in different cut-off scores for "in-area" and "out of area" children. This seems quite unnecessary to me. I will try and dig out some info on the Greenwich thing. It is just something I remember from the dim and distant past but which the spirit of seems to have disappeared from in many schools' oversubscription policy.

On the other argument, that it is the boys superselectives that are causing the problem of lack of places at TWGSB I do not know if the figures stack up. Do you have any hard data on this? And even if the number of boys travelling from out of Kent to Skinners and Judd was the same as the number of boys that have to be squashed into TWGSB I am not sure about the fairness of changing the superselectives admission policy to solve this problem.

If I lived over the county boundary from any school I would want the same chance of getting into it as anyone else living similar distance (or getting similar score for a super-selective) who lived in the county. Why should someone have any less right to go to any particular school just becuase they live across a county boundary?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
Here's something about the Greenwich thing taken from FAQs on the Bromley LEA website:

Are Bromley residents given priority for Bromley schools?

No. Legally schools are not allowed to discriminate against applicants because of where they live. In 1989 a group of Lewisham residents took the London Borough of Greenwich to court claiming it was illegal for Local Authorities to discriminate in this way. The court upheld the challenge and the case law is known as The Greenwich Judgement. It states that children cannot be refused admission to a school because they do not live in the same local authority as the school. Many Bromley schools are very close to the borough boundary and under their proximity criterion may offer to children from other Authorities. Equally, this ruling applies to Bromley residents who wish to apply for schools outside Bromley.


I would still like to know what this admissions forum thing is that four people's views are needed for, and why it is just this Judd / Skinners thing that people seem to be bothered about. There are loads of school's admissions policies in the southeast which I think are unlawful if the spirit rather than the letter of The Greenwich Judgement were used e.g. priority admissions areas with boundaries which run along natural features (which just so happen also to be a county boundary(!!) ).

Also look at the great long list of areas in the admissions policy for Weald of Kent and TWGGS dictating which town / parish / bog you have have to live in to stand any chance of getting in to each of these schools. It's a complete load of ******** and needs some reform.

There seems to be a camp which wants to cling to the notion of fixed "school catchment areas" as existed decades ago, rather than the notion of competition for bottoms on seats between schools and more choice for parents. All these over-prescriptive admission policies are trying to hark back to the long lost past by the back door!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 526
Location: Tonbridge & Tunbridge Wells
mystery wrote:
There seems to be a camp which wants to cling to the notion of fixed "school catchment areas" as existed decades ago, rather than the notion of competition for bottoms on seats between schools and more choice for parents. All these over-prescriptive admission policies are trying to hark back to the long lost past by the back door!!


I think what people are saying (ie the spirit of the objection to the current admissions arrangements at Judd/Skinners) is that they'd like their children to go to their local grammar school, so things like catchment and distance are important.

Parents aren't outdated, parents feel that local grammar school places for their children are being taken (to some extent) by pupils with a couple of extra marks "commuting large distances" just to get to school, whilst their child travels the other way from Tunbridge Wells/Tonbridge to Dover, Folkstone and Sittingbourne for their grammar education - surely that can't be healthy for the child?

Then what happens to the local children that don't get a place at Judd/Skinners, they either commute as mentioned above, or TWGSB have to open another form leading to over-crowding!

Bottom line is shouldn't children be able to go to their local grammar school so long as they achieve the mark - whether that's a pass or a higher mark that is set..?

There's another thread on the kent forum that is worth reading called "Judd / Skinners 2010 admissions", which sets out the main arguements.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016