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Should we go for 11+ with Cats 110
Yes 85%  85%  [ 28 ]
No 12%  12%  [ 4 ]
Not sure 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 33
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 Post subject: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 99
My DD is in year 5 and I have recently been told she is working at sats levels 4c for writing and 4b for Maths. Her scores for recent Cats tests are averaging 110 and the school say they will not support her for 11+.

I (and she) would like her to do the 11+ and she has always been in the top groups of a large year group.

We do have a tutor for Maths but I am doing the VR and NVR at home.

My question is ... Should I continue with 11+ or resign myself to what is the easier option of not doing the 11+.

I am interested in any comments that anyone can offer as I have no one else to discuss this with. (Billy no mates should have been my User name :wink: )

Chocolatey Mum.
:D


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:26 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Rochester
Of course you should. My year 5 DD is 3a/b for writing and we're going for it!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:51 am
Posts: 1161
i'd go for it. At the start of year 5 my dd was a level 3c in maths - shes at Rochester grammar in yr 7 now - maths will always be one of her more challenging subjects but she shines at other stuff and is willing to work hard. If your dc is happy to do the work then carry on - they can make big leaps in short spaces of time :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:09 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Kent
Of course you should go for it...
Yes, the easy option is to not bother with the 11+ - but you'd always wonder 'what if'?


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7063
CATs aren't always reliable. See this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17357&p=208337&hilit=CATs#p208337

When you mention an average of 110, I'm not sure if you mean the average of VR, Q and NVR on one occasion, or the average of a series of CATs tests (a few schools do them once a year!). A similar score in a series of CATs tests is more likely to be reliable, although nothing has 100% certainty!

See also the Q&As:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... ication#b4
Quote:
“Our Primary school has stopped giving these CATs tests since they said they did not provide a very good guide as to whether a child would pass the 11+ (my youngest daughter scored 128 in year 3, 126 in year 5, but 116 in the 11+!). I think the school got tired of parents complaining to them: ‘But she got X in the CAT test. Why didn’t she pass the 11 plus?’ etc. So… treat with caution and don’t feel that taking these tests would necessarily help with 11 plus (or anything else!).”

_________________
Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:51 am
Posts: 1161
yes similar to my dd1 at primary
in year 3 she scored 111 ish
then year 4 only 135 ish
and yr 5 121
She didnt pass the kent test - scored high on 2 papers low on maths - took gcse maths a year early and got an A grade
So all very variable


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
I don't think averaging a CAT score is terribly meaningful. For each individual CAT score, what percentile of the population does it put DC in?

Please remember that when some schools look at CAT scores they don't actually know what they mean.

When my stepson took the Kent 11+ from a Kent primary school they made it sound as though they thought his passing the 11+ was a bit touch and go. He really was the most likely candidate so what planet they were on I really don't know. I don't think his CAT scores looked too stunning, but he did 140, 140, 130 on the day.

I don't think he even knew he had done the tests for the CAT scores. Some schools have this idea that they don't like to make much of a test, so they just dish out something that matters as though it is for a bit of fun. The laid back kids just doddle through it without really being bothered to get a high mark, cos who cares it's just another bit of work. So that can be another reason for the unreliability.

In my experience, it's worth having a bash at the Kent test unless your child is really so very obviously not going to pass.

It's a shame the school won't back a headteacher's review. Maybe you get an independent assessment of your DC, which if it turns out to be good, you could use at non-qual appeal if it comes to that.

CAT scores seem to be unreliable, and unfortunately so does the Kent test.


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:47 pm 
I think the question to ask yourself is not whether your daughter has a chance of passing the 11+, but whether the best available school FOR HER happens to be a grammar. If you think that it is, give the 11+ a go. If not, don't. What are her primary school's concerns? Is it just that they don't think she will pass the exams, and is therefore being set up to fail, or do the feel that she would struggle in a grammar setting? What alternative schools do you have?

There are worse things (even educationally :D ) than not passing the 11+. one of them is to scrape into a school where you cannot keep up. I have seen the damage that can do; I had friends at my academic, private school who suffered years of stress and eroding self-confidence despite the fact that, nationally speaking, they were probably well above average ability.

Those I still hear of are now, I believe, successful women with satisfying jobs (generally in creative or caring arenas) and happy families of their own. They have survived and gradually rebuilt their self-confidence. But in some cases that took years. The "lucky" ones were probably those whose parents bit the bullet and moved them to less academic schools in the first couple of years of secondary education. I have two friends who moved and, with a more suitable teaching pace/ more support, went on to achieve much better grades than they would probably have done at our school. Instead of being bottom all the time one became head girl, the other has a post-grad degree etc. Of those that stayed, one actually ended up sitting her O-levels in a psychiatric hospital...

You might get the impression from that that my school was a callous exam-factory. It wasn't. The staff cared deeply about the pupils and went above and beyond their duties to try to get the best out of each of them. There was also no teasing or bullying about marks etc. with girls genuinely trying to support all their form mates. The pressure came from within these girls themselves (and in some cases their families). If you cannot do the work, no-one can hide that from you!


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 99
Thank you Rubyhettybetty, Tiredmum, Malibu, Etienne, Mystery and Ken99 for all your positive comments.
The link Etienne provided was very helpful and just goes to show that the Cats are not always reliable. As a matter of interest the tests were done over 3/4 days and DD had a bad cold at the time.

From what I understand the Kent 11+ selects the top 21% of the cohort (the remaining 4% are head teacher appeals) therefore, we just need to hope she falls within the top 21%. Her score of 110 would put her at the 74% centile but assumes that 26% ARE more intelligent.

We do have a church comp as a back up.

I feel very much more positive about 'going for it' and feel she would not only cope but thrive at a grammar school.

I will be realistic that it all boils down to how DD performs on the day and how OTHERS perform on the day too!

Thank you all for your support - this forum feels like a safe and comforting place to discuss all things 11+. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Cats 110 - should I?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:51 am
Posts: 1161
im glad you have decided to give it a go- what i do know from my dd1 was that she went to grammar having just scrapped through the medway 11 plus - passed by 3 or 4 marks - in yr 7 i didnt pressurise her to try and keep up and she ended the year as a level 5 - the same levels she had at the end of year 6 at primary but then the teachers and the standards seemed to have an impact and during year 8 she started to come on in leaps and bounds. By mid way through year ten she came in at 23 out of 140 pupils in her mock GCSE's ! She had worked hard but also just came into her own. There were others who didnt do so well but had come in to the school in a much higher position than her. Some just hadnt worked hard but others had been so over tutored for many years, for the 11 plus, i feel they didnt have the room to grow.

Good luck, you will find lots of resources, advice and support on here :)


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