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 Post subject: Raw scores
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:24 pm 
Is it possible, without a lot of hassle, to find out my son's raw scores. He obtained 140 in two papers. However, as I understand that this doesn't always equate to 100%, I would be interested to know. Our primary school's practice tests were v misleading. I was told by our teacher that my son could never score 140 because he has an October birthday. He also got a raw score of 99% in his maths practice test and was given a standardised score of 129. Obivously this was just a class practice test and nothing like the size of the real cohort but it can affect people's decisions as to what school they go for. There is so much talk that one needs 100% to get into, say, Judd, but then I read that this can in fact be a raw score of anythi.ng between 70-100% So I presume that the 100% is based on the standardised scores of a combined 420. My son did pass and we got our first choice but I have two others to consider in the future. I do understand that it changes every year but would just be interested in this year's raw scores.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:05 pm 
We got the raw scores from KCC. For example in our case for NVR, 53 correct out of 72 = 140


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 Post subject: Raw Scores
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:35 am
Posts: 18
I asked a question about raw scores on another thread but it seems this is a subject about which less is known. Does anyone know if the pupils' raw scores are passed on to their new secondary schools - especially as the top score of 140 can cover quite a range of marks.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:24 pm 
Thanks for your helpful replies. I think I will contact KCC to get the full info on our particular scores. It's very misleading and parents tend to think that their child has quite literally got full marks with 140. Our headteacher said to our son who got 140/140/125 that he most probably only got a few wrong to get the 125, as he is one of the eldest, and the rest was full marks. I'm sure this is naccurate and I feel our school does not quite understand the system. As I'm a new parent governor at this school, I would like to advise them on this to help future parents :!:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:30 pm
Posts: 960
Why does knowing the raw scores help? As I understand it, the marking scheme depends on so many variables from year to year and child to child that I really don't see that knowing the raw scores does anything except satisfying curiosity (and yes, i would LOVE to know what my daughter's raw scores were!)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:17 pm 
I have found out our raw scores. It is very enlightening! In our case, NVR 55/72 = 140, VR 67/80 = 140 and Maths 33/50 = 127, and that's with an October birthday. That's quite a lot wrong but still enough for one of the highly selective schools. KCC did say that not all of the children going to the top scoring schools are as bright as you'd imagine. That's not meant in an offensive way, but just being realistic. Just under 10,000 children took the test and they think the cut-offs were the highest this year because of increased tutoring. However, I don't want to start anything here, it's their assumption!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:41 pm 
Peter - are you able to enlighten me on this one. I understand the whole standardisation process, at a basic level. What baffles me is that my son had made consistently good progress with all practice papers, with few errors, etc. However, on the day, even though he thought it had been straightforward (easy maths paper, etc!), ended up with many errors and still achieved a high standardised score. He is one of the eldest (October), so does that mean that not many were ahead of this, either with errors or unfinished papers? As I said, one of my reasons of finding out his raw scores, was to inform his primary school, who also do not seem to fully understand. His headteacher was very surprised at the number of errors and had previously assumed that his papers of 140, were full marks. Does this indicate that on the day, there is more pressure on them than we realise?!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:21 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Kent & Medway
Wow, what a request! The standardisation is against children in other parts of England who have no reason to prepare for the assessments. That is why scores are higher than the national 25% level of 112/113 (often quoted as 115 to take account of errors in reliability). The scores this year are only marginally higher than previous years. There are proportionally more Kent children with very high scores than you would expect from the normal (that's a technical term!) distribution curve, significantly because of West Kent coaching. .

Why do you assume primary schools are experts in unpicking the intricacies of 11+ scores? Their expertise is in educating children, not in interpreting test results - indeed under the new terms of employment of teachers, they are not supposed (!?) to prepare children for external tests. I still have many reports about independent schools who either will go to the limit in supporting children for 11+ selection, or else will positively hinder applications if they wish to hang on to the children.

Pressure - where on earth do you begin? The West Kent grammars where high scores are at a premium - enormous pressure. Elsewhere where a pass is sufficient to secure a place - pressure on the borderzone children depending on what the alternative is.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:20 pm 
Thank you Peter. The main reason I wanted to make this clearer to our primary school, is that they used certain test papers in the autumn term, with their own method of standardisation, that is then used to guide parents as to which school to choose. However, KCC advise schools against using standardisation. As a result, their scores were way off from the real thing and sent rather a misleading message. The standardisation they used seemed severe, only allowing for one or two errors and some parents were doubtful with proceeding with the tests, when on the day, one of those pupils passed with a high score. Our school is not a high achieving school, where only a handful of children sit the test. This leads to limited knowledge on the subject. However, since I have passed this info to our headteacher, in a parent governor capacity, he has realised that their tests are misleading and will review the test methods that they use. Of course, other indicators are used, such as Sats and general progress but they are also v influenced by these tests!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:56 pm 
:shock: fascinating info. I had no idea. althougth Judd is clear on website that 140 is not full marks. husband now determined to get raw scores. I equally determined not to. she got 140s in everything and actually all that mattered was that she got to the school. so scores raw or not an irrelevance. she is so happy. don't want to ruin it.


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