Level 5s in High Schools

[mystery]

So you think the variations are just to do with socio-economic factors and how the cookie crumbles rather than any differences in the genes in a particular area, or the water, or the management of the schools? How can we explain Trafford doing so well in 2011? Come back Trafford Mum.

[twinkles]

So sorry Twinkles. Is he at a Kent non-selective? Do you know if he is an extreme rarity there with three level 5s, or is it one of the Kent non-selectives that is a bit more truly comprehensive like some of the church secondaries are?

The comprehensive school he is at do their own entry test and the top 25% that pass the test are offered a place, regardless of distance. The rest of the school places are allocated on a distance basis whatever the ability. I have no idea if he is an extreme rarity with three level 5s but I would imagine there aren't that many there - he is in the same set (top set) as some of his ex primary school friends who were never at the same level as him at any time during primary.

[mystery]

Is that in Kent? I didn't realised we had any "partially selectives".

[twinkles]

Yes. It is Homewood. I also believe that Cornwallis do an entrance test but I don't know what they use the results for.

[tigger2]

Hello ! I have just had a reply from Hillview (non selective girls school in Tonbridge) and they have said that 'over 20%' of this year 7 intake had 3 level 5's .....there were no numbers available for sub levels but it gives you an idea
Tigger
x

[TraffordMum]

So you think the variations are just to do with socio-economic factors and how the cookie crumbles rather than any differences in the genes in a particular area, or the water, or the management of the schools? How can we explain Trafford doing so well in 2011? Come back Trafford Mum.

You called?

[TraffordMum]

I suspect that Trafford is not such a mystery, mystery

It's a relatively affluent area, Conservative in hue, home to a lot of middle class professionals who work in Manchester and has much higher property prices than the rest of Greater Manchester (certainly the south of the borough has multi-million pound homes and is much beloved of Premiership footballers and the cast of Coronation Street).

Trafford is still wholly grammar/secondary and each of the grammars set their own exams. All include Maths, so I expect a large number of primary pupils in Trafford (plus the many outside Trafford who sit the grammar entrance exams) are tutored in Maths as well as the other subjects required. I am sure this has a huge effect on the SATS results in that subject.

[mystery]

I kind of think of Kent being the same though. It's a puzzle.

Hillview - really? 20% with 3 level 5s on entry? Surely not. Do they mean on departure? Why don't they have more A* and As at GCSE then? If they had 20% with 3 level 5s on entry that would mean they had higher than the Kent average of level 5s on entry. That just seems so unlikely.

[Rob Clark]

so there's another example of the good people of Bucks being in general brainier than the rest of the population

Mystery, As a Bucks boy born and bred, and now raising my own family there, I would love to subscribe to this view However, in the real world the truth is more prosaic.

Firstly, I don’t personally think there is that much correlation between SATs and the 11+ because the former are subject-specific and the latter are a particular type of test which some children can do and some can’t. (Several GSs in Bucks administer their own entrance tests post-11+, from which I infer that they don’t themselves believe the 11+ is the best way to test…)

Secondly, because Bucks operates an opt-out system, you will always get a certain, admittedly small, percentage of children passing the 11+ whom no one expected to; given that GS places are finite, you will, conversely, always get a small percentage of children who were expected to pass and didn’t.

And thirdly, there is one other possible factor which I don’t think anyone has mentioned yet. In Bucks we have a 12+ entry, but to take the 12+ you generally have to have level 5 SATs (used to be 3, now 2). So children who did not succeed at 11+ and who want (or rather, whose parents want ) them to try again the following year, ideally need to secure level 5 SATs. The GSs on the other hand aren’t bothered by SATs results so children who have passed the 11+ don’t have as great an incentive to get higher level SATs. Therefore although it sounds counter-intuitive, children who failed the 11+ may have more reason to work at their SATs than children who passed. So if you are looking at Y7, you might find a higher percentage of DCs with level 5 SATs than you would otherwise expect.

Hope all that makes some sort of sense!

[Looking for help]

Oh penguin don't even get me started on the unfairness of the whole 11+. I am still not 'over it' 2 years later!! My son had an off day and missed by a few points, went to appeal and that failed too but what about all those that are at Grammar who had a 'good day' and just scrapped through, their ability is not questioned at all yet my son's ability was questioned to the nth degree to prove that he should go to grammar but the appeal panel decided otherwise.

Oh twinkles, it is so sad, isn't it? Mine also had an off day, I find myself still wondering day after day why it should be. He also had 3 good level 5s, in fact better actual scores than his older siblings who passed.
I remember at the time looking for the statistics on how many children got 3 level5s, and for boys in particular it was very very low - English being the one that tripped them up. If my memory serves me correctly I think in English there was a level for reading and one for writing, a larger number may get 5 overall but very few got 5 for both papers