Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar school
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Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Just being nosey as this would not affect me, but I still can't understand how it can be an annexe if its going to be mixed. Aren't both schools single gender except for sixth form? Surely if you have different entry criteria than it can't be an annexe. Was this discussed at the meetings?
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pheasantchick
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Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Invicta is in a group which also runs Valley school in Maidstone, which is a mixed school. However, it is not a grammar school. Is this how they are bypassing the gender issue? I've wondered about it too.
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Hi everyone!
Sorry if I'm not able to answer your questions 100% but the KCC representative (Kevin - wish I had heard his surname! but he did say he had only recently come on board which I personally didnt think was very helpful considering the number of questions asked last night directly to KCC!) said that KCC's lawyers had discussed whether a single sex grammar could take on a co-ed annex and that this was a resounding yes according to their lawyers - so it appears that KCC has that one covered.
Mystery - I seem to remember they said both at last night's meeting and at the previous one that the Meetings were being recorded - but dont know if that was for the schools' benefit or the publics! Perhaps it might be worth contacting the schools to see if they can do a podcast of it?!!
I know everyone has their own interpretations on these things, but I personally felt from the atmosphere last night that Wok's bid had just come in too late, Wok's argument as to why they hadnt come to the fore with their bid just came across as rather weak and on the offensive (in fact, come to think of it, I can honestly say that is how the presentation came across).
I am sure there are two sides to this story and no doubt we will never find out the whole picutre but it seemed like the WoK team just hadnt been 'communicating' enough with KCC, or perhaps KCC hadnt been communicating enough with WoK seeing as they were clearly making good progress with Invicta.
And of course you have to also think of those poor kids going to Trinity who have plumped for a local school, but might not be aware of the fact that KCC are opposed to the site being shared and will be mounting a legal challenge should this happen - so could be left with no school at all. The whole thing is starting to leave a sour taste in the mouth.
Sorry if I'm not able to answer your questions 100% but the KCC representative (Kevin - wish I had heard his surname! but he did say he had only recently come on board which I personally didnt think was very helpful considering the number of questions asked last night directly to KCC!) said that KCC's lawyers had discussed whether a single sex grammar could take on a co-ed annex and that this was a resounding yes according to their lawyers - so it appears that KCC has that one covered.
Mystery - I seem to remember they said both at last night's meeting and at the previous one that the Meetings were being recorded - but dont know if that was for the schools' benefit or the publics! Perhaps it might be worth contacting the schools to see if they can do a podcast of it?!!
I know everyone has their own interpretations on these things, but I personally felt from the atmosphere last night that Wok's bid had just come in too late, Wok's argument as to why they hadnt come to the fore with their bid just came across as rather weak and on the offensive (in fact, come to think of it, I can honestly say that is how the presentation came across).
I am sure there are two sides to this story and no doubt we will never find out the whole picutre but it seemed like the WoK team just hadnt been 'communicating' enough with KCC, or perhaps KCC hadnt been communicating enough with WoK seeing as they were clearly making good progress with Invicta.
And of course you have to also think of those poor kids going to Trinity who have plumped for a local school, but might not be aware of the fact that KCC are opposed to the site being shared and will be mounting a legal challenge should this happen - so could be left with no school at all. The whole thing is starting to leave a sour taste in the mouth.
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Sorry - and forgot to say. Both schools have said that the Sevenoaks Grammar would be fully staffed from day 1. Wok said there would be single sex teaching for I think it was science, technologoy and maths and shared gender teaching for humanities and the arts. Invicta also said there would be both single sex and shared gender teaching, but cant quite remember the specific subject areas but think they were pretty similar.
Just looking at the notes I made last night, and have found one that might be of interest...when Wok argued that they were 'surprised' at finding out of Invicta's plans in May through their bid, having asked to keep an open discussion with KCC on the grammar, Richard Parry stated that Wok did not in fact express an ongoing interest. Make of that what you will!!! It certainly caused a lot of confusion in the room!!
Just looking at the notes I made last night, and have found one that might be of interest...when Wok argued that they were 'surprised' at finding out of Invicta's plans in May through their bid, having asked to keep an open discussion with KCC on the grammar, Richard Parry stated that Wok did not in fact express an ongoing interest. Make of that what you will!!! It certainly caused a lot of confusion in the room!!
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Ha - you have to feel sorry for "Kevin" then!
Sounds like that was a minor spat then between Weald and the councillor ---- not quite sure why a school would have to express an "ongoing interest " to be kept in the loop when the forecast numbers and the request from KCC as commissioner of places changed from 4 forms of entry to 6 forms of entry .... as a tax payer I would just assume that all schools might have been asked again if they wanted to build an annex in Sevenoaks on the basis of the new data that came to light. Did "Kevin" have anything to say about that?
But that's all by the by. It's surely good that there are two schools who are willing to expand - it might up the game and result in whichever one is the "winner" giving the best education possible. Why would it matter that Weald's proposal is a bit later than Invicta's? This has been dragging on for a long time now and on the scale of things the time difference is tiny - the grammar campaign website talks about them hoping to open a grammar annex in September 2013, and at the time of the council resolution in April 2012 they were also talking about September 2013.
Yes I am sure that both annexes would be "fully staffed" from day 1, whatever that means, but if you only have year 7 to teach the way that you staff it is different from if you have years 7 to 13. For subjects that you don't have many periods of per week teachers are going to have to teach more than one subject if they are going to be permanently based at that site (as for the Invicta Annex) or all timetabled in a cluster so that a teacher can work at the annex for a day or half a day (presumably this is what Weald is thinking of doing as they say they could move staff between sites, whereas Invicta has said they wouldn't).
Another solution for Invicta would be a lot of part-time teachers. Didn't they discuss these practicalities at both meetings? This is going to be one of the biggest differences for a parent in sending a child to an established grammar school with years 7 to 13 in it, rather than to an "annex" with year 7 in it, then years 7 and 8 and so on.
To me, how this would all operate would be one of my key reasons for deciding on annex versus an existing main site if either school were to open in September 2015. Trouble is, it doesn't sound as though there are many parents who are focussed on what might actually go on inside these annexes.
I still don't understand how it could have a different admissions policy from the main school either. And if it is OK for Invicta to do it because Valley Park is mixed, that would be weird too - because it is a grammar school annex that is being proposed, not a top stream annex of a non-selective school.
Did either school talk about their academic results? I note that neither of them are in the list of Kent schools getting a reasonable proportion into Russell Group unis, and neither get much in the way of Oxbridge admissions. I'm wondering why this is with Invicta as in some results tables they appear very high in terms of point scores --- is it breadth that is raising their average point scores rather than top grades? I must look at their results in detail sometime before the consultation period is over.
Sounds like that was a minor spat then between Weald and the councillor ---- not quite sure why a school would have to express an "ongoing interest " to be kept in the loop when the forecast numbers and the request from KCC as commissioner of places changed from 4 forms of entry to 6 forms of entry .... as a tax payer I would just assume that all schools might have been asked again if they wanted to build an annex in Sevenoaks on the basis of the new data that came to light. Did "Kevin" have anything to say about that?
But that's all by the by. It's surely good that there are two schools who are willing to expand - it might up the game and result in whichever one is the "winner" giving the best education possible. Why would it matter that Weald's proposal is a bit later than Invicta's? This has been dragging on for a long time now and on the scale of things the time difference is tiny - the grammar campaign website talks about them hoping to open a grammar annex in September 2013, and at the time of the council resolution in April 2012 they were also talking about September 2013.
Yes I am sure that both annexes would be "fully staffed" from day 1, whatever that means, but if you only have year 7 to teach the way that you staff it is different from if you have years 7 to 13. For subjects that you don't have many periods of per week teachers are going to have to teach more than one subject if they are going to be permanently based at that site (as for the Invicta Annex) or all timetabled in a cluster so that a teacher can work at the annex for a day or half a day (presumably this is what Weald is thinking of doing as they say they could move staff between sites, whereas Invicta has said they wouldn't).
Another solution for Invicta would be a lot of part-time teachers. Didn't they discuss these practicalities at both meetings? This is going to be one of the biggest differences for a parent in sending a child to an established grammar school with years 7 to 13 in it, rather than to an "annex" with year 7 in it, then years 7 and 8 and so on.
To me, how this would all operate would be one of my key reasons for deciding on annex versus an existing main site if either school were to open in September 2015. Trouble is, it doesn't sound as though there are many parents who are focussed on what might actually go on inside these annexes.
I still don't understand how it could have a different admissions policy from the main school either. And if it is OK for Invicta to do it because Valley Park is mixed, that would be weird too - because it is a grammar school annex that is being proposed, not a top stream annex of a non-selective school.
Did either school talk about their academic results? I note that neither of them are in the list of Kent schools getting a reasonable proportion into Russell Group unis, and neither get much in the way of Oxbridge admissions. I'm wondering why this is with Invicta as in some results tables they appear very high in terms of point scores --- is it breadth that is raising their average point scores rather than top grades? I must look at their results in detail sometime before the consultation period is over.
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Mystery - you raise a lot of very valid questions. I just struggle to find a 'balanced' view to any of this to be honest. One thing that both schools were very clear on in their presentations though was their efforts to put this into realisation by September 2015. Whether or not they achieve it is another matter!!
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Yes, this really does not make much sense at all to me. The Christian Free School is mentioned in last year's KCC planning document as part of the potential solution to the commissioning of needed new places in this area - why "KCC" now seems to anti the free school I am not quite sure. And if there is a big problem and reason for not sharing the land, why not explain it, and say what they are going to do to help?pp1 wrote:
And of course you have to also think of those poor kids going to Trinity who have plumped for a local school, but might not be aware of the fact that KCC are opposed to the site being shared and will be mounting a legal challenge should this happen - so could be left with no school at all. The whole thing is starting to leave a sour taste in the mouth.
It's so hard as a member of the public to know what is going on with any of this; officers (paid KCC staff) and councillors (politicians) are not one and the same thing but to the average outside onlooker it is confusing and whatever anyone from the "KCC" says - whether politician or officer - it is then quoted in the press etc as the "official line" from KCC and it all just gets more and more tangled.
Children and education seems to have got a bit lost in a lot of this.
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Yes it seems very unlikely doesn't it? And again, this is where you might hope to hear KCC say what they are going to do about that year? It is not the job of Invicta or Weald to sort that problem out!pp1 wrote:Mystery - you raise a lot of very valid questions. I just struggle to find a 'balanced' view to any of this to be honest. One thing that both schools were very clear on in their presentations though was their efforts to put this into realisation by September 2015. Whether or not they achieve it is another matter!!
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
Kevin Shovelton – KCC Director of Education Planning and Access.
This must have been the "Kevin" who as at the Weald meeting. He also was at the Invicta one according to the Sevenoaks Campaign website so he's not that new to it. Was he asked any questions from the floor about what would happen if we do not have an annex by 2015 and what was his answer?
This must have been the "Kevin" who as at the Weald meeting. He also was at the Invicta one according to the Sevenoaks Campaign website so he's not that new to it. Was he asked any questions from the floor about what would happen if we do not have an annex by 2015 and what was his answer?
Re: Another consultation meeting about Sevenoaks grammar sch
I read today they are talking about building a satellite grammar in Herne Bay. Linked with Barton Court Grammar in Canterbury.
They have apparently, identified a site, CCC are supporting it and, as BCGS is Co-ed, there is no `single sex` issue.
Herne Bay and Whitstable do get the rough end of the stick here for Grammar places, and there is proposals for building a vast swathe of new housing in Herne Bay and on the site of the Howe Barracks in Canterbury.
I wonder if the Herne Bay Grammar Support Group will be as feisty!!!!
They have apparently, identified a site, CCC are supporting it and, as BCGS is Co-ed, there is no `single sex` issue.
Herne Bay and Whitstable do get the rough end of the stick here for Grammar places, and there is proposals for building a vast swathe of new housing in Herne Bay and on the site of the Howe Barracks in Canterbury.
I wonder if the Herne Bay Grammar Support Group will be as feisty!!!!
