Freedom Pass changes
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Re: Freedom Pass changes
Sorry I still haven't understood the story. Children aged 5 to 16 are entitled to free school transport if they go to their nearest suitable school and it is over a certain distance. Was Kent paying for children to go further to grammar school on a discretionary basis and has now decided to stop this?
I think the problem is that councils should make it clear when you make your school choice that the free transport (to grammar or a church school, or another school further away than your very closest) was discretionary and could be cut at any time, so it you don't want to have to take the risk of standing the cost in the future you shouldn't choose that school. It's a little too opaque currently.
It's a bit like accepting some independent school scholarships etc - some of them may not last for life and then you are liable for the full fees.
Children who are on free school meals and wftc are still entitled to free transport aren't they? Or have they forfeited this by choosing the "wrong" school?
I foresee more Sevenoaks town children going to Knole Academy soon rather than out to grammars, or church non-selectives in other towns.
I think the problem is that councils should make it clear when you make your school choice that the free transport (to grammar or a church school, or another school further away than your very closest) was discretionary and could be cut at any time, so it you don't want to have to take the risk of standing the cost in the future you shouldn't choose that school. It's a little too opaque currently.
It's a bit like accepting some independent school scholarships etc - some of them may not last for life and then you are liable for the full fees.
Children who are on free school meals and wftc are still entitled to free transport aren't they? Or have they forfeited this by choosing the "wrong" school?
I foresee more Sevenoaks town children going to Knole Academy soon rather than out to grammars, or church non-selectives in other towns.
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womanofkent
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:56 am
Re: Freedom Pass changes
I think people are all bringing up some valid points, it is a shame that this information has come out after people have already made their choices re schools. Personally I think it is wrong for Kent to have a 2 tier system and then to say that if you choose a grammar because they have deemed your child is eligible and should be attending that stream that they then penalise you for choosing it.
I wanted to highlight the possible additional costs to parents so that they are aware, for us we review our household budget in January for the year and so we will have to now set aside some money in lieu of the changes.
To be honest one of the reasons we chose the Freedom Pass was to allow DS some independence and social time with his friends on the bus, however, the bus is so overloaded he hates it and is always worried they will refuse him entry due to numbers taking a shorter journey where there are alternative routes. From our village there is only one bus, which when it drops him at the bus stop he has to walk 10 minutes along an unlit main road so for me the decision will be easy save the £100 and take him to and from school, he will also not have to leave so early in the morning.
I wanted to highlight the possible additional costs to parents so that they are aware, for us we review our household budget in January for the year and so we will have to now set aside some money in lieu of the changes.
To be honest one of the reasons we chose the Freedom Pass was to allow DS some independence and social time with his friends on the bus, however, the bus is so overloaded he hates it and is always worried they will refuse him entry due to numbers taking a shorter journey where there are alternative routes. From our village there is only one bus, which when it drops him at the bus stop he has to walk 10 minutes along an unlit main road so for me the decision will be easy save the £100 and take him to and from school, he will also not have to leave so early in the morning.
Re: Freedom Pass changes
Mystery, this is only to do with the Kent Freedom Pass. Currently you can pay £100 and this provides a card for your child to travel on buses in Kent, many many children use this to travel to school.
It is now proposed that this card will still cost £100 but will be loaded with £350 credit for use on buses, when this credit has been exhausted it will then be the responsibility of the parent/carer to top it up to cover bus fares or find another means to get the child to school. For us the additional cost will be in the region of £300 per child.
It's very different from accepting an indie bursary and then losing it I can assure you! For us the nearest "suitable" school is in Tunbridge Wells.
It is now proposed that this card will still cost £100 but will be loaded with £350 credit for use on buses, when this credit has been exhausted it will then be the responsibility of the parent/carer to top it up to cover bus fares or find another means to get the child to school. For us the additional cost will be in the region of £300 per child.
It's very different from accepting an indie bursary and then losing it I can assure you! For us the nearest "suitable" school is in Tunbridge Wells.
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tonbridgemum
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:46 pm
Re: Freedom Pass changes
I do agree its wrong to change the system without much warning as many parents will need to budget accordingly from next year.
However, we do have to accept that kent giving our children bus passes is not a requirement and was only brought in in 2007.
(Although I must admit I don't know much about what happened with transport before then as my older children walked to school )
I guess a lot of this boils down to our system of grammar schools and the areas we live in in Kent. If more children here went to their nearest school (like many other counties) then there maybe be less of a problem with financing lots of children to lots of schools - but that's a whole new thread
It would make sense and be fairer, for new children to be on the new scheme if it makes financial sense to the LA but children already on the old to continue as before.
However, we do have to accept that kent giving our children bus passes is not a requirement and was only brought in in 2007.
(Although I must admit I don't know much about what happened with transport before then as my older children walked to school )
I guess a lot of this boils down to our system of grammar schools and the areas we live in in Kent. If more children here went to their nearest school (like many other counties) then there maybe be less of a problem with financing lots of children to lots of schools - but that's a whole new thread
It would make sense and be fairer, for new children to be on the new scheme if it makes financial sense to the LA but children already on the old to continue as before.
Re: Freedom Pass changes
Sorry I have still not understood. Please read my post above.
It is the law that children aged 5 to 16 whose nearest school is more than a certain mileage away get free transport - see http://www.gov.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; So if your nearest school is a long way away doodles you will still get free transport. So what was being done before that was discretionary in kent that is now being removed?
And when people first applied was it not clear in the transport section of the admission booklet that it was discretionary? The wording is usually too subtle - using the word "may" for instance. Councils should really be cleverer about making it clear that the way they use their funds can change.
The council also has to fund school transport for children on free school meals etc. I do not think that reading a committee paper on the freedom pass alone is enough to understand which elements of discretionary free school transport are being cut back on. It looks like the freedom pass was providing even more freebie transport on top of the home to school transport that kent was already funding that they did no strictly have to fund.
Many councils have funded so much for a long time that they do not have to find that it is very hard to grasp and find out the minimum that they really do have to cough up for.
We live a long way from any secondary school. Transport would therefore be free for us. Also if you live less than three miles away and it is not safe to walk you are entitled to free transport.
I am not sure that the council is obliged to fund transport to a grammar school though if it is not the closest school - just checked - no they are not and kent ended this discretionary right a while ago and then said they would review it because it was an unpopular decision. What happened? If most people were purchasing the freedom pass I guess they would not have felt the change. Now they are cutting back on what the freedom pass entitles you to the pain of the cut starts to be felt.
I think the problem is that kent has paid out millions and millions of pounds over the years in free home to school transport to parents who could afford it and these payments were discretionary. It is a difficult one to cut back on as it is not a vote winner ( well no cuts are) and it affects so many potential voters it is a brave move which is only taken once the roads have gone to rack and ruin and a lot of old people and vulnerable children have received a poor service which can't be cut back further.
Maybe one day they'll decide building a grammar school in sevenoaks is beyond the budget too!
But free school transport for 5 to 16 year olds is still enshrined in law where the journey is not walkable. But total freedom of choice of school is not enshrined in the free transport entitlement. That would be an unaffordable all time promise. It is a law that is unlikely to change while in some way educating your child remains compulsory.
It is the law that children aged 5 to 16 whose nearest school is more than a certain mileage away get free transport - see http://www.gov.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; So if your nearest school is a long way away doodles you will still get free transport. So what was being done before that was discretionary in kent that is now being removed?
And when people first applied was it not clear in the transport section of the admission booklet that it was discretionary? The wording is usually too subtle - using the word "may" for instance. Councils should really be cleverer about making it clear that the way they use their funds can change.
The council also has to fund school transport for children on free school meals etc. I do not think that reading a committee paper on the freedom pass alone is enough to understand which elements of discretionary free school transport are being cut back on. It looks like the freedom pass was providing even more freebie transport on top of the home to school transport that kent was already funding that they did no strictly have to fund.
Many councils have funded so much for a long time that they do not have to find that it is very hard to grasp and find out the minimum that they really do have to cough up for.
We live a long way from any secondary school. Transport would therefore be free for us. Also if you live less than three miles away and it is not safe to walk you are entitled to free transport.
I am not sure that the council is obliged to fund transport to a grammar school though if it is not the closest school - just checked - no they are not and kent ended this discretionary right a while ago and then said they would review it because it was an unpopular decision. What happened? If most people were purchasing the freedom pass I guess they would not have felt the change. Now they are cutting back on what the freedom pass entitles you to the pain of the cut starts to be felt.
I think the problem is that kent has paid out millions and millions of pounds over the years in free home to school transport to parents who could afford it and these payments were discretionary. It is a difficult one to cut back on as it is not a vote winner ( well no cuts are) and it affects so many potential voters it is a brave move which is only taken once the roads have gone to rack and ruin and a lot of old people and vulnerable children have received a poor service which can't be cut back further.
Maybe one day they'll decide building a grammar school in sevenoaks is beyond the budget too!
But free school transport for 5 to 16 year olds is still enshrined in law where the journey is not walkable. But total freedom of choice of school is not enshrined in the free transport entitlement. That would be an unaffordable all time promise. It is a law that is unlikely to change while in some way educating your child remains compulsory.
Re: Freedom Pass changes
Mystery I did read your post most thoroughly but free travel is not as simple as it seems!
DS1 was deemed suitable for GS education but when we applied for free travel this was turned down on the basis that we hadn't applied for our nearest GS but had chosen Skinners' which is further away - however our nearest GS is Judd and he didn't qualify for this and the catchment for TWGSB doesn't come out this far so he didn't qualify for that. He was given a place at the most SUITABLE school for him but it is not PHYSICALLY the nearest GS school so the answer was NO!!!
Make what you want of it but the enshrined entitlement to free travel to school is not as plain and simple as you may think so don't be so sure that you will get free transport when your time comes to apply.
DS1 was deemed suitable for GS education but when we applied for free travel this was turned down on the basis that we hadn't applied for our nearest GS but had chosen Skinners' which is further away - however our nearest GS is Judd and he didn't qualify for this and the catchment for TWGSB doesn't come out this far so he didn't qualify for that. He was given a place at the most SUITABLE school for him but it is not PHYSICALLY the nearest GS school so the answer was NO!!!
Make what you want of it but the enshrined entitlement to free travel to school is not as plain and simple as you may think so don't be so sure that you will get free transport when your time comes to apply.
Re: Freedom Pass changes
I didn't say I was sure. I am hoping to get a grammar school, and as a kent non selective is closer I am prepared for the likelihood that free transport would only be on offer to the non selective, not the grammar school.
The council is not obliged to pay for transport to a grammar school when there is a non selective closer. Just because a child passes the kent test does not mean every other type of school is unsuitable for the child.
When you applied kent was being more generous than they strictly had to be - they were saying that they would pay for transport to the closest grammar school where the child had passed the test. You would have needed to complain or go to a transport appeal if you tried to get a place at the closest grammar but ended up further away because of score or over subscription.
This thread is missing some facts still. Has kent continued with its policy decision taken quite a while ago just to give free transport to the closest school ( I.e. where parents choose a grammar rather than a closer non selective they are not entitled). Does anyone have a link to kcc website which clarifies this?
People have lost track of what the council is obliged to do, versus what it actually has done for many years of paying out school transport costs that it did not have to. It is sad that they have to cut back. I suppose though it is a case of those people who choose a further school paying, versus higher council tax for everyone in kent.
The council is not obliged to pay for transport to a grammar school when there is a non selective closer. Just because a child passes the kent test does not mean every other type of school is unsuitable for the child.
When you applied kent was being more generous than they strictly had to be - they were saying that they would pay for transport to the closest grammar school where the child had passed the test. You would have needed to complain or go to a transport appeal if you tried to get a place at the closest grammar but ended up further away because of score or over subscription.
This thread is missing some facts still. Has kent continued with its policy decision taken quite a while ago just to give free transport to the closest school ( I.e. where parents choose a grammar rather than a closer non selective they are not entitled). Does anyone have a link to kcc website which clarifies this?
People have lost track of what the council is obliged to do, versus what it actually has done for many years of paying out school transport costs that it did not have to. It is sad that they have to cut back. I suppose though it is a case of those people who choose a further school paying, versus higher council tax for everyone in kent.
Last edited by mystery on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Freedom Pass changes
Bucks changed to this system of free travel (if over 3 miles) to your nearest secondary.
Unfortunately this includes all types of secondary, even free schools ... and your nearest school may not be your catchment school!
Unfortunately this includes all types of secondary, even free schools ... and your nearest school may not be your catchment school!
Re: Freedom Pass changes
Mystery, believe me when I say that actually having been through the whole system twice I do understand it!
Strictly this thread isn't about free travel at all but about the impact that changes to the KFP will have.
I have written to Michael Fallon and I await his reply!!
Strictly this thread isn't about free travel at all but about the impact that changes to the KFP will have.
I have written to Michael Fallon and I await his reply!!
Re: Freedom Pass changes
It is the same old problem every politician gets when they try to cut back. Hopefully he will send you a nice letter. He is still waiting for gove to decide about a sevenoaks " annex" ( even the telegraph puts it in quote marks - that does not really help the argument!)
I still do not think this thread is very clear. It makes it look as though if your school transoport costs would come to more than the amount put on the freedom card, that all parents would have to pay the difference. That is not true so far as I can see. Everyone is entitled to free transport if they go to their nearest school and they are aged 11 to 16 and it is more than three miles away. This is the law of the land I think. If it is less than three miles and it is unsafe to walk ( no pavement or path across the fields) then it is free too.
I still do not think this thread is very clear. It makes it look as though if your school transoport costs would come to more than the amount put on the freedom card, that all parents would have to pay the difference. That is not true so far as I can see. Everyone is entitled to free transport if they go to their nearest school and they are aged 11 to 16 and it is more than three miles away. This is the law of the land I think. If it is less than three miles and it is unsafe to walk ( no pavement or path across the fields) then it is free too.