September 2015 takers?

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mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by mystery »

Ah, mine was a response to a post much further back - the one that talked about the existence of over-tutored children who then struggle at grammar and have to leave. I was saying that I am never sure whether these children exist in reality or not.

I agree with your post.
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by mystery »

chimera-ma wrote:Yes, my long-winded post crossed with yours and a couple of others, I think!

I'm not sure I understand all your points, Mystery. I'm wondering if my post was unclear?

On tutoring for the Test, I meant that good Test preparation is important, whether using a professional tutor or DIY, particularly if there is a need to raise literacy and maths levels as a better school or teachers might have done.

I'm not critical of intensive methods if the child can cope, and one approach may work some of the time, another at other times. Any successful method, whether intensive or low-key, should help equip a child for secondary education: the important thing is getting to the necessary standard. I am positive about all sources of teaching/tuition: school, home or professional tutor.

How difficult it must be though, for parents/carers who feel ill-equipped to teach/tutor, whether due to their own educational status, work or childcare pressures - or all three - and who cannot afford professional tuition.

Yes, or who do pay for professional tuition and then realise afterwards that it wasn't any good.
salsa
Posts: 2686
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:59 am

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by salsa »

I'm sure I read on this forum comments such that the teachers say that those who go in through a headteacher's appeal struggle. Then someone else responding that it wasn't true. This made me think that the teachers do know who got in on a headteacher's appeal. Do you think this is true? How much do teacher's know?
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by mystery »

I really can't see how a subject teacher would know that. Even a parent might not know that - you can have a very high score and have just failed one paper and been passed at the headteacher panel. I really do not think that can be true.

You can have a child who has committed a gross crime in your class and not know.
salsa
Posts: 2686
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:59 am

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by salsa »

I guess all the subject teachers know is their SAT results?
optimisticmom
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:09 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by optimisticmom »

mystery wrote: People need to decide for themselves what areas their child might need to do some work in in order to pass or get a superselective score. These other kinds of statement I do not find relaxed as they make people feel their kid is thick if they did some preparation and passed, or stupid if they didn't do any work and failed. Also, some children have not learned as much as they might have done at school for a variety of different reasons.

I am sure that one doesn't have to do very much to possibly make quite a big difference.
Awesome! totally agree..

Optimisticmom
Last edited by optimisticmom on Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
optimisticmom
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:09 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by optimisticmom »

salsa wrote:Spot on Mystery!
I think that parents come to this forum for guidance. They may think that "tutoring" is not needed and do nothing with unexpected results. As you say, some need a high score whether they are aiming for a superselective or are from out of catchment.

I have heard parents say that their children did not need any "tutoring", but they went to a prep school, had 4 papers "homework" at the weekend, did some Bond at home during the week, mock exams and a summer boot camp for good measure!

Tutoring is tutoring whether is being done at home DIY or a tutor is being used. At the end of the day the child is preparing.
Quite refreshing to hear... I spent some time in the summer, going over this issue on this 11 plus forum and boy did I get slated!

But I'm cool and still standing. The one thing that does intrigue me is that when the results come out, for the most part all you can hear is "that's an excellent score, well done!" or "Congratulations, you must be very proud of dc." Which indeed is the way it should be and not once did anybody ask "was he heavily tutored??"

As my dd would say, its not that deep! Tutor if you must!, teach if you must!! Prep if you call it that but practise, practise and practise some more!! Then pray some and hope it will be alright on the night...

At the COP, you are trying to give your dc a great start which is not such a bad thing. I feel for those who can't afford, and some don't have the knowledge but those who can should be given the thumbs up and not be made to feel bad or their kids be made to feel thick because they dare to try.

Wishing you all the best for March 2nd and beyond.

Optimisticmom
penguin
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:49 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by penguin »

I'm in agreement with Chimera-ma, Mystery and Optimisticmum.

I laughed aloud at the comment about teachers not knowing if children in their class have committed a gross crime :lol: (it's very true)

I have often shared on the forum the approach I have taken with my two DDs. I do see the 11+ as a hurdle to be overcome to be able to go to a school that will provide them with excellent opportunities to thrive and flourish in the whatever areas/direction that they might not otherwise have had the chance to do. The study timetable helps students be more prepared for the homework they will be set and expected to complete at grammar school. I really do not see anything wrong with this even though I often hear the criticism of children being put under a lot of pressure due to homework volume. I think if they are in the habit of reinforcing or consolidating their learning at home or even taking more responsibility of it by doing some independent study, there is much less pressure at exam time because they would be literally revising rather than getting to grips with a topic and also doing exam practice.

I don't think primary schools are able to cover what children will be tested on at the time the 11+ is taken so they do need extra assistance to be able to cover it and familiarisation with the testing process. (I have personal experience of 3)

I also want to share that my eldest DD who is at grammar school and was allegedly gifted and talented at primary school in English and Maths and at secondary school in English and I did help/ensure she was prepared/tutored/taught ready for her 11+ started off reasonably well and due to her own academic performance tailing off because she spent more of her time messing around with friends or not using her time wisely, was moved down a group in maths.

She was slightly horrified when I showed her the letter from the school and I pointed out that it is nothing to be surprised at as she hadn't been focusing in that subject and hadn't taken advantage of the help available to her (including me) and would hardly ever do the extension work. Also that everyone can't physically be in the top group (the teachers have to take the girls that are consistently the best performers) and she would be taught the same things as the other group and if she wanted to move up, she'd just have to show she can actually do better. I am really grateful that the move downwards has happened because she's seen a quick consequence of things.

The point I'm trying to make with my waffling is that as an observer, you could say my DD was struggling at grammar and shouldn't be there as she was tutored/taught by me.

The reality is, she wouldn't have been taught all the topics by (both) her primary schools before she actually sat the 11+. She wouldn't be in a grammar school if we hadn't moved to an area where there is one. She has experienced the sudden freedom of being at school and the extra time after school coming home with friends instead of being collected by me. She was doing really well academically at the beginning, stared to not focus again and then has realised that coasting won't work for her. She is putting in the work herself and is doing very well academically and socially now.
chimera-ma
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by chimera-ma »

I'm glad your DD is back on track, Penguin, and thank you for sharing your story. It suggests that even if a DC loses her/his way a bit in a new school or with the changes and peer pressures of teenage years, the earlier experience of preparing for the 11+ and the memory of the achievement which resulted from that effort are things that a DC can draw on to help regain focus.
TBB
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:12 pm

Re: September 2015 takers?

Post by TBB »

Have just found that GL Assessment have taken up the "Option to Extend" their Kent Test contract for 12 months and, therefore, will also be providing the Kent Test next year (September 2015). Details here: https://www.kentbusinessportal.org.uk/p ... ntid=1.007" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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