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 Post subject: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:56 pm
Posts: 84
Hi there

Slightly off topic I know but I'm curious as to what parents' opinions are regarding Y6 SATs. Are they really as important as my DS school is saying??? Surely not? Surely my son will be reassessed within weeks at his secondary school and they will make their own mind up as to where he sits academically within his peers?

I have to say I'm not overly worried about it all, but I know my son is :( Am I being flippant by being so relaxed about it all?

Opinions most welcome ...

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:42 am 
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We always told our boys that the SATs are important to the school as they are what the school is judged on...they are less important to the individual as it is the school that has to prove it is hitting its' targets. That is why they seem to take on disproportionate significance, in my mind.

I would encourage your son to do his best but not get tied up in knots about it. A good secondary will do their own assessments anyway and, as has been said numerous times on here - a Level 6 awarded at Primary is rarely the equivalent of the expectations required at a level 6 secondary.


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:06 pm
Posts: 434
Exactly that, it's a measure of the school not the child.

My children know this, but know I expect them to try the best. If they've had good consistent teaching over the years it really shouldn't be an issue. And my guys know now that any test is just a measure of how well they do in that test on that particular day. It really doesn't measure anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:11 am 
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That is incorrect - the levels do matter to the child.

The KS2 levels are the baseline for secondary progress measure and used to set targets by the Fischer Family Trust (FFT) data Secondary schools use. So a level 4 child's expected progress is a GCSE grade C (or the new equivalent) ...


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:27 am 
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Guest 55 can you elaborate? What confuses me slightly is that a child gets a "Level 5" or a "Level 4" etc., not sub-levels so am I right in thinking that the secondary school doesn't receive the sub-levels either? The thing is, there is quite a difference in ability between a level 5c child and a level 5a child so I can't see how accurate targets can be set if the sub-levels aren't given to the school? Also, if a child sits a level 6 paper but doesn't get awarded a level 6, is the secondary school aware of this?

Also, how is the GCSE expected grade worked out through the sats results? So a level 4 is equivalent to a GCSE C (in y11), so does that mean a level 5 is a GCSE B and a level 6 is an A??? (I'm aware the grading is changing for GCSE's but am just trying to get the jist of it all) ..

Thanks (and sorry if I'm being a complete numpty)


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:24 pm
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Location: Petts Wood, Bromley, Kent
My DD isn't sitting Sats as she is in an independent junior. We hope that she will get grammar as we can't afford fees at secondary. So if Sats are so important why don't all children sit them? My daughter gets given a standardised score based on NFER levels which are derived from a short unannounced test around this time of year every year which tracks progress in maths, reading and spelling. No furore around these and no pushing or testing again and again as the purpose isn't to prove school worth and aren't used in league tables. I am not concerned she isn't sitting the Sats, quite pleased she isn't seeing all the angst it causes. I do get value from year on year comparisons via the NFER scores and have found these helpful as a parent to tell how she is doing compared to her peers and that she is maintaining or building progress. No school is closed to her if she doesn't have a Sats score.


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
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amfnc wrote:
Guest 55 can you elaborate? What confuses me slightly is that a child gets a "Level 5" or a "Level 4" etc., not sub-levels so am I right in thinking that the secondary school doesn't receive the sub-levels either? The thing is, there is quite a difference in ability between a level 5c child and a level 5a child so I can't see how accurate targets can be set if the sub-levels aren't given to the school? Also, if a child sits a level 6 paper but doesn't get awarded a level 6, is the secondary school aware of this?

Also, how is the GCSE expected grade worked out through the sats results? So a level 4 is equivalent to a GCSE C (in y11), so does that mean a level 5 is a GCSE B and a level 6 is an A??? (I'm aware the grading is changing for GCSE's but am just trying to get the jist of it all) ..

Thanks (and sorry if I'm being a complete numpty)


We do get the exact mark, as do FFT, so the targets are based on accurate KS2 data. We wouldn't know if a child has sat level 6 and anyway the policy on entry is different for each school; I'm more interested in the level 3 to 5 mark.

Yes, that how 'expected progress' works but we have to get a certain % 'above expected progress' to be good or outstanding. FFT also builds in teacher assessment to its GCSE probablities amongst other things. Our current concern is the capping of the new GCSE grade 9 to a certain % which is lower than that for A*; how can we show outstanding progress with this limit?


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:05 am 
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Apologies Guest55, I thought they were reassessed in yr7.


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:08 am 
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No problem.

Some schools do assessments in September but they aren't used by Ofsted to judge the school!


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 Post subject: Re: Y6 Sats
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:31 am 
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I'm sorry Guest55 - I may also be entering numpty ville here - but genuinely I still don't see how any of that matters to the child.

I understand that SATS are used to work out a target for a child at a GCSE but, to my mind, that is still for the school, not the child....this doesn't preclude the child from doing better than expected...a target is just that a target - the minimum they should be aiming for - it isn't the ceiling (unless it's an A* or A** or 9 or whatever the govt have decided to call it this time!) Again, I get the bit where you say "we have to get a certain % above target to get good or outstanding" and I understand the concerns about the new levels and how you prove that to get outstanding - but that is still about the school's worries - most kids don't care if the school is hitting it's requirement for Ofsted - they care about their individual grade (I do understand that parents want to go to good/outstanding schools and good teachers want to go to good/outstanding schools) but everything I have seen smacks of SATs being important to show the SCHOOL's progress, rather than the child.

DS2, and DS1 before him, has spent the whole year (Y7) doing a raft of assessments and ISTs, all of which are then used to calculate predicted grades (or targets)...ie these are used, not the SATs results - and as someone said above - a good proportion of the kids in the school have come from independents or others where they have no SATs results, therefore, the predicted grades are made on these Y7 assessments - these are for the kid - Ofsted may of course be told a raft of different targets based on SATs levels but we haven't been given that!


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