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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:33 am
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Hi, has anyone ever known anyone to win an appeal when a child was 9 points overall away from the overall mark required? Marks short in English and maths papers, passed reasoning. No tutoring.... possibly a big mistake as son is naturally bright, in top sets for everything at school. I really don't know what went wrong on the test day??!!HT appealed.. obviously unsuccessful but has said he will support me with an appeal and do everything possible as he thinks my son would best suit a Grammar and is more than capable of doing the work. Thank you


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:56 am 
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I'm afraid I think you have next to no chance realistically. To miss a pass mark in one paper by a few points can be a possibility, but there will have had to have been massively extenuating circumstances on the test day to explain a significant shortfall in not one but two papers. Have you got any other good options near you, other than grammar? Good luck :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Thanks.. I agree to be honest. I find it so ridiculous that had he been a summer baby, his raw scores would have been enough to pass on all papers and overall. So there will be kids who got exactly the same number of questions correct/wrong on each paper as my son... yet they are deemed suitable for Grammar! I just find the whole thing ridiculous as when those kids get to Grammar the teacher won't set them work that is easier just because they were born in summer!! GCSE exams will not take age into account either.. so why do 11 plus???


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Cath28 wrote:
Thanks.. I agree to be honest. I find it so ridiculous that had he been a summer baby, his raw scores would have been enough to pass on all papers and overall. So there will be kids who got exactly the same number of questions correct/wrong on each paper as my son... yet they are deemed suitable for Grammar! I just find the whole thing ridiculous as when those kids get to Grammar the teacher won't set them work that is easier just because they were born in summer!! GCSE exams will not take age into account either.. so why do 11 plus???


Unless something very unusual has happened with raw scores this year, the difference in one year's age ( Sep born vs Aug born ) in Maths and English pass mark is a maximum of 2 points, often just one point.

GCSE exams do indeed not take it into account, as most children catch up by then. Many, many summer borns miss out on the 11+ as they do not mature until 12/13 years old, which is why it is so sad there is no 12+ in Kent.

And let's not look at the number of summer borns that never even take the test! The comparison between autumn borns taking the test and summer borns taking it makes really depressing reading, and KCC are totally uninterested in it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:59 pm 
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I think the whole process is flawed but I do at least agree with age standardisation - there is significant difference between 10 and 11 year olds that has corrected itself by 16, particularly in boys.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:33 pm 
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I was a summer born and within 2 months of starting school got moved up to the year above. Also my other son is summer born and I have never found him behind those kids born in Autumn or winter. I just think every child is different and every child, regardless of when their birthday is will develop at totally different times. Just because a male is born in September it doesn't mean a male born in July will go thru puberty later. Physical development will fall at totally different times and I think the same goes for mental development.
Having analysed the initial raw scores, yes... summer children having scored the same as my son would have passed. So you can see my point... they will be doing the same work at Grammar as winter born children... it's all just odd!!

I agree with Grammar schools but not with the 11 plus style testing . My other son only scraped in on his English paper yet he came top in the whole year in English in their annual exams.... so what happened to all those "high scorers"?? And imagine if my son had got 1 more question wrong on his 11 plus English.. he would not have got in to Grammar!! Lol!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:48 pm 
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Cath28 wrote:
I was a summer born and within 2 months of starting school got moved up to the year above. Also my other son is summer born and I have never found him behind those kids born in Autumn or winter. I just think every child is different and every child, regardless of when their birthday is will develop at totally different times. Just because a male is born in September it doesn't mean a male born in July will go thru puberty later. Physical development will fall at totally different times and I think the same goes for mental development.
Having analysed the initial raw scores, yes... summer children having scored the same as my son would have passed. So you can see my point... they will be doing the same work at Grammar as winter born children... it's all just odd!!

I agree with Grammar schools but not with the 11 plus style testing . My other son only scraped in on his English paper yet he came top in the whole year in English in their annual exams.... so what happened to all those "high scorers"?? And imagine if my son had got 1 more question wrong on his 11 plus English.. he would not have got in to Grammar!! Lol!


Anecdotes can't defy statistical evidence which proves that there is a difference between summer and winter born children however.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:47 pm
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Location: Warwickshire
Cath28, I'm in a similar situation in Warwickshire.

Boys only had to come in top 50% approx to get into a grammar school. My son is (or we thought he was but do wonder now) quite bright, has always in all school life been in top half and often on top tables.

He missed by well, who knows, about ten points.

He did very well in maths, but I believe here the vr and non vr are added together and divided in two ... he did badly in both. No tutoring and he refused to practice. So we feel guilty for not having tutoring and not trying harder to make him do Bond papers. He had looked at them.

All - all - his eight? friends have passed, and I don't know how many other boys. It's a bumper year for his school.

He has no reason for failing other than he's obviously not very bright (school have always said he is?) or had bad day, but no extenuating circumstances and very low ranking and score mean there is no way he will be going to a gs. He is lucky we have a good back up school - assuming he gets there, no guarantee right now - but gutted he won't be with his friends who all live around us and will all go to the gs.

I thought he'd be a border line pass, tbh. If he'd failed by a little less ... or any of his friends had failed ... but it's upsetting to say the least. Especially when I hear that everyone who passed at tutoring. He's doing well and holding his head high. I'm just avoiding school. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:33 am
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ginx wrote:
Cath28, I'm in a similar situation in Warwickshire.

Boys only had to come in top 50% approx to get into a grammar school. My son is (or we thought he was but do wonder now) quite bright, has always in all school life been in top half and often on top tables.

He missed by well, who knows, about ten points.

He did very well in maths, but I believe here the vr and non vr are added together and divided in two ... he did badly in both. No tutoring and he refused to practice. So we feel guilty for not having tutoring and not trying harder to make him do Bond papers. He had looked at them.

All - all - his eight? friends have passed, and I don't know how many other boys. It's a bumper year for his school.

He has no reason for failing other than he's obviously not very bright (school have always said he is?) or had bad day, but no extenuating circumstances and very low ranking and score mean there is no way he will be going to a gs. He is lucky we have a good back up school - assuming he gets there, no guarantee right now - but gutted he won't be with his friends who all live around us and will all go to the gs.

I thought he'd be a border line pass, tbh. If he'd failed by a little less ... or any of his friends had failed ... but it's upsetting to say the least. Especially when I hear that everyone who passed at tutoring. He's doing well and holding his head high. I'm just avoiding school. Good luck.

Ah! So sorry to hear! Your son sounds very similar to mine. My son's friends all passed... none are in top sets as he is but ALL have been heavily tutored for the last year or 2 and have been pushed by their parents at home! Like you, I never pushed my son as thought he is bright... and have always been a believer that Grammars are for kids who are naturally bright without the need to be tutored! More fool me!! Good luck for the future , I am sure our sons will do just fine wherever they go... but it has all left me feeling rather let down by the system!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Even the brightest child can be flummoxed by the 11 plus if not prepared. Most tutoring focuses on exam technique and familiarisation rather than teaching. Sadly I think the days of simply turning up and taking it are over due to the style of the exam being so different to what children see at school.


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