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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:08 pm
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Location: Westerham, Kent
Hi I am new here but have been reading lots of the posts to get some idea of how the whole system works (my daughter is due to take next 11+ Sept 08 or Jan 09). I have read that to get into top West Kent schools like TOGS you need scores like 140, 140, 137 but what I don't understand is that if the maximum mark is 140 and the scores are standardised, how can an older child ever achieve this, even if almost no mistakes are made? I am probably missing something really obvious here but will someone please be patient enough to explain?
:?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:32 pm
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Location: East Kent
I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the 140 was a standardised score.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm
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Location: berkshire
There is quite an in depth discussion on standsrdised scores on this thread....

viewtopic.php?t=793

Have a read and come back if there is any part you need clarifying....we may have an answer but don't count on it... standardisation is one of the most confusing topics I have come across. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 269
Location: somewhere in kent
Hi Weserham Mum,


I have read the link above, and it may be that, like me when reading this you think only a v high score gets a pass. I dont think this is true.
Some of the Grammers like TOGS I think, put extra criteon to a basic pass mark, which is normally about 120,120,115 in order to be accepted and some schools dont. Say for example if TOGS had more applicant than places, they may fill up based on a pass plus distance from the school, or simply a higher score.
I stand to be corrected but I think that Tunbridge Wells Boys Grammer
and Weald of Kent (girls), do not have an oversubscription critereon, meaning that provided it is on your application list to the coucil and your child get the basic pass, shown above, they will be accepted.
I understand that the general idea, is that the 25% most able children from the cohort will be offered a Grammer place.
Judd School quoote on thier website that 71% =140,75%=140 and 75%=140, these scores are for NV,V AND Maths respectivley.
An example of this was when my daughter took her practice test, In her verbal reasoning she scored 63/85 questions =74%. Once this score is standardised, I expect that she will score 140. She said she did way better in the real thing, but even if she did, she still wont get any higher score.
This is becouse, in order to get a standardised score the council take 100 random childrens results from all over the county. They use the score of
100 as the mid point and normally 140 or 141 as the top end of the scale.
placing these childrens scores against this scale provides the standardised score. My son last year failed by one point on one of his papers (maths)
His raw score was 23/50 = 114 and 115 would have been a pass.
I would explain that he has just been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome
and an inspection of his actual paper revealed that he attempted and got right all 23, clearly had he have finished the paper, it may have shown a greater ability than this score reflected. And, I think if he had been diagnosed earlier, he would have been allowed more time in the exam. He
was accepted on appeal.

Anyway, I thought putting all this blurb down would help keep minds occupied until D Day.

Everone seems to be looking, but no one is posting!

Cindyx


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:45 pm
Posts: 827
Location: Medway & Kent
Hi Cindy, yes it is quiet isn't it? Still, just over FIVE weeks to go! Good luck to everybody, fingers crossed. :D


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 Post subject: westerham mum
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 pm
Posts: 490
Location: kent
TOGS is one of the few grammar schools in Kent which ranks applicants by the 11+ standardised score. Distance from schools would then be a "tie-breaker" if say they had 60 places, and when they rank applicants by order of score, the 60 and 61st applicants had the same score. Then the closer candidate would get in.

You will need to read the school admission policy applicable to the year you are applying (it should be on their website) just to check the up to date policy at the time, as these things can change from year to year.

Currently, therefore, as TOGS is popular and always oversubscribed, the 11+ scores of successful applicants are high. The lowest score admitted (before appeal) will vary from year to year. The school should be able to tell you this for the last few years. The lowest score admitted after appeal will be lower, but I don't think they will tell you what this was.

The highest standardised score that a child can get in any Kent paper is 140. But this does NOT mean the child answered all questions correctly.

To simply get a pass in Kent (which would not ever get you into a school like TOGS), a September born child would have got more questions right than an August born child (maybe two or three I believe - it will of course vary from year to year).

For example, my stepson, with a September birthday scored 140 in two papers a couple of years back, but he most certainly would not have got 100% of the questions right.

Hope this helps. Good luck


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 269
Location: somewhere in kent
Hi perplexed,

I understand the thing about tie breaker, apparentely last year, TWIGGS
applied the distance aspect, and were full within a two mile radius.

However, several people have said that this distance thing goes in and out
on alternate years, maybe, as parents who have just selected, were put off
by the two mile radius thinking they had no chance, and so on the alternate year there are more spaces/less applicants.
As you may suspect I am hoping for Twggs.
Hope that is all roughly clear?

Cindyx


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:08 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Westerham, Kent
Thank you all for your kind replies and your patience! I still do not fully understand the standardisation system and it seems the more I read, the less I understand! My reason for asking this question was that I have been told that the NFER Year 4 SATS are marked in the same way as the 11+. My daughter for example in English last year only dropped 3 marks and got a score of 133 (February birthday) whereas my friends daughter also dropped 3 marks and got a score of 136 (August birthday). The reason for my worry is that with only 3 marks dropped, with a February birthday, her score of 133 is nowhere near the apparently required score of 140 (full marks?) to get into TOGS. Does this mean that she does not stand a chance with anything less than 100%? I have ready all the schools entrance criteria and it is true that Weald only require a ‘pass’ however I have also discovered that I am not within their catchment area as it works on parish councils not towns. Although I live in Westerham, I pay my council tax to Bromley so apparently…..that’s that! Good luck to all of you waiting for results at the moment and thanks again for your replies. x


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:27 pm
Posts: 269
Location: somewhere in kent
she does stand a good chance with less the 100%.

roughly 75% of the questions right has historically gained top mark,of 140.

perhaps depending on birthdates some children will have to get one or two
more correct answers to get the top standardised score.

The in area pass last year for TOGS was a combind score of 410 out of a possible 460.

hope this helps

good luck


Cindy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:08 pm
Posts: 134
Location: Westerham, Kent
This really does help thanks. I think it has just fallen into place. I thought that the 140 was 100%! Sorry for being a bit slow but I think I have grasped it now! According to the figures you quoted for TOGS, that means we will probably need about 90% +. That is much more achievable.

Thanks again.


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