Recent hearing

[c'est la vie]

I am a bit confused and I apologise in advance if I am completely way off here but Cest le vie has posted quoting preposed imposed scheme for Admission 2009 and later refers to Head teacher assesment date of 20/10/08 and parents chance to respond by 14/11/08 and a final date of 2/3/09 does this not all relate to next year ie will effect children currently in year 5.

The bit I am confused about is the admissions for 2009 as the appeals at the moment are for admission this Sept 2008.

I am really sorry if I am adding to the confusion

I can see why you are confused...and you are not alone, believe me!

First, we have a new School Admission Appeals code that applies to all appeals from 1st March this year. County should have applied the code which does not allow for appeal against the assessment outcomes from March, but they chose to interpret the review system as not applicable to our schools. However, in having to refer to the Secretary of State, the proposed scheme for 2009, and the Secretary of State being made aware of the confusion over our system, it was determined that Kent did indeed have a system that was a review system envisaged by the new Appeals Code. Subsequently, all appeals from 1st March are subject to the new statutory requirements of said code.

It makes no difference that the imposed scheme is for the following year; the timing of the appeals is the crux.

I hope that is a little clearer. Admissions are a very complicated matter in Kent because of being a wholly selective LA - as we are all too well aware by the number of Adjudications for Kent.

[Moscow]

Hi all. Well i phoned KCC today and they did not have a clue about this new admissions procedure and assured me that at the moment nothing has changed. C'est la Vie is reading from the new admission code form 2009 and does not apply to current appeal, at least in my part of Kent. In fact KCC wanted to know where I got my information from.

Have received details of second appeal today, LEA based and more thorough but nothing to say they cannot hear my appeal becuase the Headteachers' appeal failed, in fact, our Headteachers' appeal was attached to the paperwork! They DO know our headteahcer appealed and failed so why allow the appeal to go ahead if been directed not to???

[Alex]

C'est la Vie, you quoted from the DCSF document on the proposed admissions scheme for Kent:

"Following the marking and the application of the Head teacher assessment stage, on 20th October 2008 the LA will write to parents advising of the assessment decision. Parents will have until 14 November 2008 to return their completed SCAF.
There will be no right of appeal against the outcome of a child's assessment, but parents may make an admission appeal after 2nd March 2009 to the independent appeal panel if their child is refused admission to any school. "

I think that the wording of this creates some confusion. There never has been any automatic statutory right for a parent to appeal against non-qualification on its own (whether or not the assessment of the child’s ability includes a review as an integral part or not). The right has always been to appeal for a place at a school for which you applied but were refused a place. As far as I am aware, the only Local Authority which has set up a system for a statutory appeal against non-qualification on its own is Buckinghamshire, which is a wholly selective county. In most places you appeal for a school place and non-qualification is given as a reason by the admissions authority for not complying with parental preference. The new appeals Code does not take away the right to appeal where a child has not qualified and there has been a non-statutory review. It says that if such a review has taken place the panel must satisfy itself that that it was carried out in a “fair, consistent and objective wayâ€

[c'est la vie]

C'est la Vie, you quoted from the DCSF document on the proposed admissions scheme for Kent:

"Following the marking and the application of the Head teacher assessment stage, on 20th October 2008 the LA will write to parents advising of the assessment decision. Parents will have until 14 November 2008 to return their completed SCAF.
There will be no right of appeal against the outcome of a child's assessment, but parents may make an admission appeal after 2nd March 2009 to the independent appeal panel if their child is refused admission to any school. "

I did indeed quote from the proposed imposed scheme for Admissions 2009 and I made that quite clear. However, I also made quite clear that since it was determined that the Head Teacher assessment formed part of the 11+ assessment and there was no right of appeal against 11+ outcome in the case where a child had failed to meet the criteria, then the Appeals code from 1st March would necessarily apply from this year....as it has done in Medway.

I think that the wording of this creates some confusion. There never has been any automatic statutory right for a parent to appeal against non-qualification on its own (whether or not the assessment of the child’s ability includes a review as an integral part or not). The right has always been to appeal for a place at a school for which you applied but were refused a place. As far as I am aware, the only Local Authority which has set up a system for a statutory appeal against non-qualification on its own is Buckinghamshire, which is a wholly selective county. In most places you appeal for a school place and non-qualification is given as a reason by the admissions authority for not complying with parental preference. The new appeals Code does not take away the right to appeal where a child has not qualified and there has been a non-statutory review.

I also made it quite clear that the new Appeals Code does not take away the right to appeal to any school for a place, but an appeal against non-qualification is not a ground for appeal and panels cannot consider this aspect.

It says that if such a review has taken place the panel must satisfy itself that that it was carried out in a “fair, consistent and objective wayâ€

[Alex]

C'est la Vie,

You said:

I also made it quite clear that the new Appeals Code does not take away the right to appeal to any school for a place, but an appeal against non-qualification is not a ground for appeal and panels cannot consider this aspect.

I think this is the point of disagreement! The Code makes it clear that the local review system “does not replace parent’s right to have their appeal against refusal of a place at a preferred school to be heard by a statutory appeal panel.â€

[c'est la vie]

[quote="Alex"]C'est la Vie,

You said:

I also made it quite clear that the new Appeals Code does not take away the right to appeal to any school for a place, but an appeal against non-qualification is not a ground for appeal and panels cannot consider this aspect.

I think this is the point of disagreement! The Code makes it clear that the local review system “does not replace parent’s right to have their appeal against refusal of a place at a preferred school to be heard by a statutory appeal panel.â€

[Alex]

Sorry if my post confused the issue about Bucks - there is no system for non-statutory reviews/ headteacher appeals in Bucks. I believe they did away with them some years ago but they have a system of statutory appeal against non-qualification and these appeals are held before allocation of school places.

My concern on reading the original posts and replies was that parents in Kent might feel that they were unable to appeal for a Grammar school place or that it was pointless to appeal for a Grammar school place if their child had not qualified. There are still a lot of uncertainties about how things will work out under the new Code in practice. Perhaps the parents who have been to appeal this year where non-qualificatation was part of their appeal will feed back - hopefully the decision-making process will be reflected in the letters they receive after the appeal.

[mumsy]

Hi Alex,

you are correct - I am an appealing mum in Kent, for a non-qualification, and i have read over and over these messages today, and I really started to panic!!

Fortunately, HT did not lodge an appeal for NQ for my DD (she attends a church school, and they do not openly encourage GS but do, however, make a point of stating how many pupils gained entry to GS in their prospective each year!! [another subject i could rattle on about!!]), although has now written a support letter from herself and my DD's class teacher confirming current and predicted results together with her suitability for GS.

I hope that everyone who is appealing, will be treated equally whether or not HT has appealled previously, as the whole system for appeal and 11+ is very guarded for whatever reason.

if I had not had found this fab site, I think my chances would of been very remote, but with the excellent info here I have put forward the very best I can possibly give - FINGERS CROSSED FOR THE 1ST MAY!!

GOOD LUCK TO ALL APPEALERS
Mumsy

[c'est la vie]

Thanks Alex for your clarification. on Bucks. Presumably then, parents cannot appeal against statutory appeal decisions made before allocation of places (Results Day!)

And to mumsy: I echo Alex's request that you give feedback to the forum on how you do - although your appeal should come under the terms of paragraph 3.36 of the new Appeals code because your daughter's 11+ result was not reviewed by the Head Teacher assessment process, and not under paragraph 3.37 which is the contentious one!

You'll be comforted to know that the panel must not devise its own methods to assess suitability for a grammar school place unrelated to the evidence provided for the hearing. In determining to uphold your appeal the panel must be satified that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of grammar school ability, and where applicable, that the parents' argument outweigh the admission authority's case that admission of additional children would cause prejudice.

[MGSMUM]

I too have been following this discussion - and have come to my own conclusions!

Essentially, it could be perceived that because my son did have a headteacher appeal (very unexpected, marginal fail, high achiever - for which there is ample academic evidence - including predicted Level 5A SAT's), we are not able to pursue further down the parental route. Albeit that the headteacher appeal was 3 lines long, and part of those 3 precious lines were used to describe my son as 'delightful' (true - but then I'm bisased - however, hardly relevant!) and 'nervous' - which has had everyone who knows him (professionally or otherwise) in hoots - as that's about as wrong as you can get! Not surprisingly, I've found it harder to see the funny side.

However, those for whom the headteacher did not appeal for because it was felt they would not cope at GS, they will now have an opportunity to present their case at appeal.

I have been assured, from many sources, that this is most certainly not the case in Kent (not this year anyway!) So, we're appealing away - and it will be interesting to see the outcome.

But for future years, if this really is how things will work, I can guess there will no longer be any headteacher appeals. If a headteacher appealed and failed (as happens many times, currently), and the only way a parent can then appeal is to show that the headteacher appeal was not carried out in a fair, consistent, and objective way - well, I wouldn't put myself in that position as a headteacher!

So, then the appeals system will be one of as many parents appealing as there is now, with no 'filtering' via a headteacher appeal (admittedly, it's difficult to know how many appeals the headteacher appeals knock out of the system at the moment - but I guess it must be some)

And yet, I thought the objective of the code was to 'balance the tensions between demand on schools and rights of parents' and to reduce the administrative burden. From a Grammar perspective, this will only serve to increase both! I don't have the inclination to read the rest of the document, and perhaps new procedures for other appeals to reduce burdens/tensions - but if the Grammar element of the new code is anything to go by, probably not!