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 Post subject: Kent scores?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:10 am 
I'm trying to find out very roughly how many questions a child would have to get right to have a chance of passing. Does anyone know? There is a rumour going round our playground that you have to get 47 out of 50. That sounds really high! I am in the Canterbury side of Kent, by the way, not the scary Tunbridge Wells side!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:13 am 
as far as I know it depends on the other childrens results. The top 20% of children will pass so it is very difficult to assess what number of questions would equate to a pass. Sorry I can't be of more help, probably as confussed and stressed as you are :roll:
You could phone the admissions team (the number is in the booklet listing all the schools) they may be able to give you a better idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:49 pm 
I would ignore the rumours. It is not possible to set a test paper of exactly the same standard each year, and also the ability of the cohort will vary from year to year. The exam is to find the top 25% of the population (higher for some schools). So to get a pass, or to get into a particularly selective school, the number of correct questions required each year will vary.

Individual schools should be able to tell you what the lowest 11+ score was last year before appeal of those offered a place.

The maximum 11+ score on each of the three Kent papers is 140. Usually a pass in Kent equates to roughly having to get 120 on each paper. To score 140 one does not have to answer all the questions correctly. And an older child will have to get more questions right than a younger child to score get 140 or any other mark. This is the age adjustment you may read about else where on this website. A headteacher once said to me that the age adjustment is equivalent to the July birthday child being able to get two or three more questions wrong (per paper I think) than the September birthday child. But obviously this will vary from year to year also.

So instead of puzzling about how scores on practice papers will equate to real test scores, to which you will never find a satisfactory answer concentrate on the following:

1. Is my child roughly in the top 25% of the population and is grammar school the right place for him / her?

2. If so, do practice questions relevant to Kent, and concentrate further practice on those topics and types of question that your child cannot currently do, and on gaining speed and accuracy on the rest.

Good luck!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:55 pm 
unsure wrote:
So instead of puzzling about how scores on practice papers will equate to real test scores, to which you will never find a satisfactory answer concentrate on the following:

1. Is my child roughly in the top 25% of the population and is grammar school the right place for him / her?



Totally agree with you on this. in that if the child is not working at the top level in the class they will probably struggle in Grammar.
However, the problem in kent is that as we have to apply before 11+ is sat and we can only choose 3 schools it can be quite worrying. Despite my daughter being the top girl in her class I worry endlessly about the Maths exam. The only non-selective we are close to and assured a place in is appaling, a very rough place in whcih I'm sure my bookish daughter would be fried alive! I therefore panic about her failing and having to appeal to the better comp on my Caf form that is very over-subscibed and further away.
Sometimes seems like a lottery to me. What a horrible system this is :(


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 Post subject: caf problems
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:35 pm 
if you need the insurance policy of a non-selective school you need to do more research. What is the admissions policy in the event of oversubscription for the good school which you are a reasonable distance from? Does it make any difference if you put the 1st , 2nd or 3rd? Do you know if anyone as far from the school as you ever gets in? Do you know which grammar school you are considering takes people with the lowest scores?

You need to speak to the schools concerned, and the admissions section at Kent cc. Do not rely on hearsay from parents, on this site, or from primary heads. They frequently do not know the admissions system well enough, or miss out a critical point in their info.

Yes you only have three schools on the form, but if you are not likely ever to get a place at the good non-selective it won't take up a slot! and the poor one close by may always have space (ask) so you don't need to put them on the form at all!

Is your local school that bad? Have you visited and seen the top sets in action?

What aptitude tests have the primary school carried out and where does this place your daughter in relation to the population as a whole?

If you really do not have non-selective school that you like and will get a place at up your sleeve, you need to have an independent option if you can afford it. If not, get on with the practice, find out the strenghts of the non-selective your daugther is likely to end up at so you don't make her feel too miserable if she fails, and look at options for changing school at 13+.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:37 pm 
Yes, our local school is that bad! Bad results and bad bullying problems. My daughter is not the type to fight back!
The school have placed my daughter in the top 1% for VR and English and the top 15% for Maths so she should get through. Also have done research about our non-selective school and they do take from our area, she will probably have to go on appeal but my headteacher is pretty sure they would be eager to take a high scoring child (she has managed in the past and we have a school bus going from our village so we can't be completely out of their realm)
I was just trying to point out why we perhaps get so hug up on numbers and percentages.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:40 pm 
Anonymous wrote:
Yes, our local school is that bad! Bad results and bad bullying problems. My daughter is not the type to fight back!
The school have placed my daughter in the top 1% for VR and English and the top 15% for Maths so she should get through. Also have done research about our non-selective school and they do take from our area, she will probably have to go on appeal but my headteacher is pretty sure they would be eager to take a high scoring child (she has managed in the past and we have a school bus going from our village so we can't be completely out of their realm)
I was just trying to point out why we perhaps get so hug up on numbers and percentages.

By the way, should have said, thanks for all the advice!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:13 pm 
still not sure that you really have all the info you need and the CAF needs to be in soon.

Have you contacted the non-selective school of your choice and found out how people from your postcode have fared in the last two years?

Do you know whether it makes a difference whether you place the non-selective 1st, 2nd or 3rd on the form, or is an equal preference school?

Have you looked at its oversubscription criteria in the admissions booklet?

Have you found out about appeals, as this seems to be what you are relying on in the event of failure? I am not sure whether an admissions panel for a non-selective school is interested in 11+ scores, or can take into account your views on how poor another school is.

I am sorry if I provided unsolicited advice and you just wanted to complain about the system and your local school. This was not what I thought these boards were for.

Also you still seem to be relying on primary headteacher for advice on admissions , and the existence of a bus, ............ not always the best source of advice as I tried to gently point out in my previous message.

Get on the with the maths work - make sure your daughter can do the types of questions covered in the NFER practice questions. My step daughter is also in the "top 15%" for maths ( by what measure?) - should get A* at GCSE but she failed the 11+ maths paper as she had a very poor tutor who did not cover the right material. I helped my stepson and scored 140. I don't think he is any better at maths than my stepdaughter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:54 pm 
completely agree with unsure. make sure you really know your facts before making your choice. get advice from secondary schools and your local authority admissions dept. don't assume that your primary head has all the correct answers. only then will you choice be truly informed. I know people who listened to the wrong piece of advice and have lived to regret it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:31 am 
Hello unsure,
just wanted to say that my comment of thanks for the advice was not meant sarcastically. I do appreciate the time you have taken to give me input.
However, I think you may misunderstand the ammount of research we've put in to making our choices. Our CAF forms are already in (deadline over) and I have done all the things you have mentioned weeks ago. I've talked to the schools I'm interested in and many children from our school go to my daughters non-selective choice every year (as I said, they run a school coach from the end of our road which would be pointless if they didn't admit from here). I have spoken to all the schools in question and also to the LEA admissions team.
I have looked at the over subscription criteria and hopefully we should get in, but it is by no means a sure thing. (we are on the edge of the boundry of many non-selective schools but only safely within area on the one that I have mentioned.)
Have also looked carefully into my second choice grammer, which is generally not as highly selective as my first , but is still a very good school. They have been put second to bridge the gap between good pass and fail. (They are still a good school with good ofstead with very good results- I know people with kids there who are very happy)
None of the schools are concerned about placement on the form and in fact do not find out whether they are 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice in our LEA.
My daughter has been tested by the school, (CAT) tests which are independently marked and has scored 140+ in VR, 130 in NVR and 125 in Maths so is on course to pass if all goes well (and thats the bit that makes me nervous)
At the end of the day, I don't really need to worry about putting the bad school down as they always have places which they struggle to fill anyway

By the way, we are already revising at home and my daughters results are good (90%+).


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