Waiting list outcomes?

[Villagedad]

Yes, the schools are aware of all the problems and grief that their admission arrangements are causing and both Boards of Governors were asked to consider the arguments in favour of introducing some form of catchment area. They didn't even bother to engage in the debate or seek to justify the current arrangements.

I believe that the out-of-area parents within the schools form a very, very vocal minority who would scream blue murder if the arrangements were changed to include a catchment area in the over-subscription criteria.

If I'm reading this correctly they are currently not considering any change or even engaging in the debate.., they have just dismissed things out of hand..?

Villagedad

[kentish maid]

The problem lies in KCC's limited ( if any ) ability to compel Judd or Skinners to amend their admissions criteria. There is no incentive for either school to change at present. I think their admissions policies disadvantage more local boys than is reasonable. The alternative for the locals who pass but cannot get a place at one of the three West Kent grammars is a lot less attractive in most cases, than the alternatives for the out of area boys who are able to obtain a place. This is especially so for those living north of Sevenoaks.

Maybe the two super selectives could at least bring themselves to put a limit on their out of area places, as per TGS. Having said that , there is still a problem for many girls living north of Sevenoaks. He who must not be named has a figure on his web site of 96 appeals ,60+ of which who have passed 11+ for Weald of Kent Grammar.

Nb I do know of some boys who would have got a place at either Judd or Skinners but who did not put them on their caff as they felt the schools did not feel right for them. People may also be put off applying if they have problems with transport to either school. Could be cost ( not nearest appropriate school) or lack of public transport.

[7oaksdad]

If I'm reading this correctly they are currently not considering any change or even engaging in the debate.., they have just dismissed things out of hand..?

In effect, yes. The admissions arrangements for 2010 have been published and there is no change. In the Sevenoaks Chronicle the headmaster of Skinners defended the arrangements because "...it is the traditional way that Skinners' selects pupils..." In short, 'the matter is closed, go away'.

I'm not sure when this 'tradition' was introduced. I grew up in the area and I am pretty sure that in those days Judd and Skinners took pupils only from Tonbridge, Tunbridge Wells and Sevenoaks. I am also pretty sure that this fashion of more-advantaged people willing and able to afford to 'play the system' by shipping their children fifty or more miles across county borders is a relatively recent thing and is limited to the five schools in the country that do not have a catchment area; ie: Judd, Skinners, TOGs (for the Governors places), St Olaves and I think one other school somewhere.

[perplexed]

This thread is interesting and is quite long now. It sounds as though there will still be a problem for some boys who wanted to go to TWGSB, even after appeals, with some boys having to travel a long way to a grammar school or giving up and choosing a local unpopular school such as Wildernesse.

But I am still curious about whether this is really the case, as in the four pages this thread covers there is no-one who has written in who knows one of these boys.

Does anyone know one of these boys? Do you think the TWGSB appeals and waiting lists do not maybe comprise of all the "local boys" that everyone is imagining? It could have loads of boys from Sussex on the list! And the boys living in the north of Kent might have found a really good comprehensive to go to outside Kent.

I'm just playing devils' advocate as it does surprise me that no-one seems to have shown up on these fora with firsthand knowledge of the problem.

Personally I would think that if we have superselectives (and I'm not sure that we should, but I would use one if my children could get in to it) they should have entry criteria that are purely based on score. If this leads to a problem with the distribution and number of grammar school places in a specific area, then this should be dealt with by sorting out that problem, not by diluting the entry criteria. County boundaries and fixed distance criteria do not sit well in school admission policies.

[pemburydad]

Until reading this thread, I hadn't realised there was such a problem for boys from the West Kent area getting into the local grammar schools this year. Our focus has been on the girls as our daughter has failed to get a place at any of the three girls schools in spite of the fact that we live within 4 miles of all three!!

However, I continue to believe that we will be successful through the appeal process and are waiting anxously on the results of the first two. As far as I understand it, if the appeal panel support the child, the school have to find them a place and I cannot believe they won't have sympathy for children who have passed but may be sent a ludicrous distance across Kent.

So for those still waiting, particularly for the TWBG, keep your hopes up!!

[7oaksdad]

Does anyone know one of these boys? Do you think the TWGSB appeals and waiting lists do not maybe comprise of all the "local boys" that everyone is imagining?

Yes I do personally know a number of boys in this situation - including the son of a local headteacher. One school in Sevenoaks has sixteen children in this situation. So no it is not lots of boys from Sussex on the waiting list. I have been in communication with the head of Judd and he acknowledges that there is 'unacceptable' problem in Sevenoaks.

And the boys living in the north of Kent might have found a really good comprehensive to go to outside Kent.

Where are these really good comprehensives that they can attend? Names please because I can tell you there are some desperate parents who use any information that you can give them. So please post the contact details of these 'really good comprehensives' that they can attend - as soon as you can.

As far as I am aware, with the exception of St Olaves, these children are out of area for Bromley schools....unlike, of course, the Bromley children for Judd and Skinners.

[7oaksdad]

as I understand it, if the appeal panel support the child, the school have to find them a place

The head of TWGSB has told me that he is full up and that is an end to the matter. He may take one or two boys with some special reason for having to attend the school. But he is not taking 60 boys no matter how dire their situation. Why should he sort out the mess created by Judd and Skinners?

[pemburydad]

As I said, I don't believe it is his decision. He will attempt to defend his PAN to the appeal panel, but the decision of the appeal panel is binding on both parties. So, if 30 boys are given places via appeal, he has to accommodate them. But I stand to be corrected if someone knows better

[kentmum1]

7oaksdad - what I meant in that the same 60 odd boys may also have their names on the Judd/Skinners waiting list is reality. There may be some who have just missed the cut-off who are trying their luck there also. Otherwise who is on their waiting list? There are people on this forum who have been allocated Skinners but are on the waiting list for Judd. There is still time for some movement yet. I haven't heard of anyone getting an outcome from their appeals yet, so there is still some glimmer of hope, depending where you are on the waiting list. My son chose TWGSB as his first choice, even though he ended up getting a high score. He simply prefered it but we have the choice as we live within a safe distance. However, if we had lived further away we would have included Skinners too. I do agree that the system needs an overhaul as it currently puts too much pressure on TWGSB to become larger, which is not at all desirable.

[jonnie303]

I have been in communication with the head of Judd and he acknowledges that there is 'unacceptable' problem in Sevenoaks.

The fundamental problem in Sevenoaks is the lack of grammar schools here.