Maths practice
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puzzled
why do most of these threads ignore the question?
Here is yet another thread that ends up with a debate that has nothing to do with the original question. This website is really useful but a high percentage of messages to the forum would not help a child or help a parent help a child.
But as I can't resist joining in, I shall add that I am puzzled as to why the previous respondent thinks that it is possible for someone truly average to pass the 11+. I would hope that the examination boards have a bit more expertise in psychometric testing than this.
If there is evidence that pupils with IQ of 100 are passing, and ones with higher IQs are failing, then we should set up a pressure group to improve the tests.
But as I can't resist joining in, I shall add that I am puzzled as to why the previous respondent thinks that it is possible for someone truly average to pass the 11+. I would hope that the examination boards have a bit more expertise in psychometric testing than this.
If there is evidence that pupils with IQ of 100 are passing, and ones with higher IQs are failing, then we should set up a pressure group to improve the tests.
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Guest
I am not the guest that posted about average children getting into grammars, although I have read other posts on this forum that say that their "average" child got into grammar school after being coached. I also know of some very bright children who have not got in and some not so bright children who have. I don't know the reason for this or why children who have underperformed all the way through primary then get a place at a grammar. I also can't understand why private school kids can get places easier than state school children - I am absolutely positive that private school doesn't make you cleverer, but they have some way of getting the children into grammars - perhaps by a greater use of extension work. The authorities are all for saying that the maths in tests will be of KS2 standard and then they go and put algebra in the tests. Have you seen some of the harder questions on the NFER papers? There is no way that a normal uncoached 10 year old could do these if they had only been subjected to the numeracy hour.
Another point that I have considered. Why do the children need to get 95% to get into a grammar when they only need to get 20% for an A* pass at GCSE, or am I being facetious.
Another point that I have considered. Why do the children need to get 95% to get into a grammar when they only need to get 20% for an A* pass at GCSE, or am I being facetious.
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Guest
Anonymous wrote:Hi
Thanks for your replies. Don't worry he is not burnt out as he only does about 20 minutes Maths a day. We have made an effort to make sure that he knows all the material as his school is a bit lacking in that area.
When he was three he was diagnosed as academically gifted and a paediatrician wrote to his school to say that they needed to takes these needs into consideration. The school ignored this so we wanted to make sure that we got involved in year 5 as the school were more than happy with letting him coast at the top of the class.
I know of parents that coach their children a couple of years before the 11+ but we've only been doing it for about 7 months in small chunks along with some comprehension and essay stuff but for no more than an hour a day. His work is finished by 4:30 or 5 if he is given school work and then he has the evening free to do as he wishes.
This is an academically gifted child that we want to help with his exams he will have no problems at grammar school as he is strong in all subjects. However, we still had problems with not reading questions properly and not showing working out. These problems have been resolved with practice and pointing out silly mistakes that have been made.
The real problem with these exams is that boarderline children can be coached to pass them and then they struggle at grammar school. This is simply helping an academically gifted child.
Regards
F
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jah
For anyone interested in Maths, may I suggest Martin Gardiner's books? Particularly if child is keen on reading as well. Otherwise, practice doing puzzles such as Sudoku or Kakuro under timed conditions.
The thing with a young brain is that it is continually looking for a new challenge. When I was about 10, my older sister (who was studying Maths at Uni with a view to becoming a Maths teacher) taught me basic trigonometry. You could have a go at doing something practical like trying to measure the heights of the trees in your garden using trig. Or making basic surveying equipment to survey the garden. There is the old project of making a go-cart (not for use on the roads these days, I'm afraid). Or experiment with pendulums. This is moving into Engineering and Physics, I realise. But if your child is good at Maths, it is well worth interesting them in the more practical applications.
The thing with a young brain is that it is continually looking for a new challenge. When I was about 10, my older sister (who was studying Maths at Uni with a view to becoming a Maths teacher) taught me basic trigonometry. You could have a go at doing something practical like trying to measure the heights of the trees in your garden using trig. Or making basic surveying equipment to survey the garden. There is the old project of making a go-cart (not for use on the roads these days, I'm afraid). Or experiment with pendulums. This is moving into Engineering and Physics, I realise. But if your child is good at Maths, it is well worth interesting them in the more practical applications.
As a mathematician I need to point out here the simple fact that there is both a deviation around the mean for average children (I presume here we are talking about the children popultion taken as a whole?) and a deviation around the mean for the academically very able children (using some arbitrary measure to measure it -bearing in mind the caveat that some children are only talented in one subject rather than the full range).
If both deviations around the means (dispersion) are sufficiently large and you visualise the distributions in your mind, it is possible that the right hand side of the former group will intersect with the left hand side of the latter distribution. This is how "average" childen get into a grammar school. Once there however, it is by no means certain that the will stay at the bottom or struggle as the human mind develops at different ages for different children.
The discussion of whether a clever child needs coaching is as silly as saying that I am going to participate in the Beijing 2008 Olympics but I need no coaching because I am a naturally good atllete! By the way, the human mind needs coaching continously by any means (not just for the 11+) otherwise if not challenged, used and trained it will just wither and die, just like the body.
If both deviations around the means (dispersion) are sufficiently large and you visualise the distributions in your mind, it is possible that the right hand side of the former group will intersect with the left hand side of the latter distribution. This is how "average" childen get into a grammar school. Once there however, it is by no means certain that the will stay at the bottom or struggle as the human mind develops at different ages for different children.
The discussion of whether a clever child needs coaching is as silly as saying that I am going to participate in the Beijing 2008 Olympics but I need no coaching because I am a naturally good atllete! By the way, the human mind needs coaching continously by any means (not just for the 11+) otherwise if not challenged, used and trained it will just wither and die, just like the body.
Anonymous wrote:I am not the guest that posted about average children getting into grammars, although I have read other posts on this forum that say that their "average" child got into grammar school after being coached. I also know of some very bright children who have not got in and some not so bright children who have. I don't know the reason for this or why children who have underperformed all the way through primary then get a place at a grammar. I also can't understand why private school kids can get places easier than state school children - I am absolutely positive that private school doesn't make you cleverer, but they have some way of getting the children into grammars - perhaps by a greater use of extension work. The authorities are all for saying that the maths in tests will be of KS2 standard and then they go and put algebra in the tests. Have you seen some of the harder questions on the NFER papers? There is no way that a normal uncoached 10 year old could do these if they had only been subjected to the numeracy hour.
Another point that I have considered. Why do the children need to get 95% to get into a grammar when they only need to get 20% for an A* pass at GCSE, or am I being facetious.
sj355
Jah - where did you find the Martin Gardiner books you referred to? Searched this site, butcould not find.
My son is very interested in maths - enjoys it so much that he leapt at the chance to go a tutor( thought he would be reluctant).
Like the previous guest. we are not trying to cam him, but just give him access to develop something he enjoys - like any other hobby.
My son is very interested in maths - enjoys it so much that he leapt at the chance to go a tutor( thought he would be reluctant).
Like the previous guest. we are not trying to cam him, but just give him access to develop something he enjoys - like any other hobby.
Best Regards,
Thea
Thea
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Guest55
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Guest
My son did the Medway test in January 2007. I used the Bond Maths 10-11 book that has 25 question papers with 50 questions per paper.
My son practiced as far as paper 12 in the book as well as the standard NFER packs, you get from WHE Smith, that everybody else uses.
Although Maths is my son's strongest subject, he said he finished the test paper in the real exam with about 10 minutes to spare. He also thought the real 11+ maths paper was easier than the test papers in the Bond book. He scored over 120 in the real 11+ maths test.
I recommend you get the Bond 10-11 book, yes there are some tough questions, but the sheer breadth of the questions means your child will be prepared for anything.
My son practiced as far as paper 12 in the book as well as the standard NFER packs, you get from WHE Smith, that everybody else uses.
Although Maths is my son's strongest subject, he said he finished the test paper in the real exam with about 10 minutes to spare. He also thought the real 11+ maths paper was easier than the test papers in the Bond book. He scored over 120 in the real 11+ maths test.
I recommend you get the Bond 10-11 book, yes there are some tough questions, but the sheer breadth of the questions means your child will be prepared for anything.
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jah
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Guest
well done to your son. What sort of score should we be looking at on the bond papers to be in with a chance of doing as well as your child. we are year 5 and some of those questions look quite scary!!I recommend you get the Bond 10-11 book, yes there are some tough questions, but the sheer breadth of the questions means your child will be prepared for anything.
