Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

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mother night
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:22 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by mother night »

Hi FB

My DD was terrified of maths and WW3 used to break out when we tried home tutoring so we had to pay. From the start of yr5 to a test in Feb she improved by 4 sub- sets - in 6 months. She always had the ability- it was purely psychological- she changed from, 'I hate maths!' to 'I love maths' and the self belief was reflected in all her subjects.
It was expensive and I would have preferred to have helped at home, but the objective third party made all the difference . So the short answer to your question is yes!

Regards

MN
fatbananas
Posts: 1411
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:03 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by fatbananas »

4 sub-sets :shock: In 6 months! That is EXACTLY the sort of story I wanted to hear!! Thank you Mother Night :D And well done to your daughter!
Seize the day ... before it seizes you.
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by mystery »

Fb, it is perfectly possible. In year 3 my dd was a 3b in the qca optional sats just befor Easter. In may she was a 4c in the qca optional sats - only weeks later.

The difference? I worked with her on topics that she did not seem to have done at school from level 3 and started some level 4 work too.

There could also be something wrong with the school assessment. Ask to see the paper on which he was assessed. You may find he was given a qca optional sats test for which the top level is 3a or 4c. You might find he worked too slowly, or that he wasn't there for part of the lesson.

There are two levels of optional sat paper for year 4 - an a paper and a b paper. They were produced by qca years ago . You can google them. If he Is doing the bond 9-10 assessment papers well there is no way he is 4c.

I think you need to get this sorted out with school this term as it might affect his maths group next term which would be a pain for you.

There will be other test papers they can give him this term if it was a bad day and it is going to affect his group.

It is still well abode average though as 3b is national expectations at ane do year 4, so only be bothered if it affects his maths group next year and thus what he will be taught.
Turtlegirl
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:54 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by Turtlegirl »

My Yr 5 son has gone from a 4C in maths to a 5c since January. A great tutor has been the key. It's been all about confidence for him. Pennies have dropped and his maths has come on brilliantly. We've also used a big variety of resources at home to keep the interest going. Taking first 11+ exam next week!
fatbananas
Posts: 1411
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:03 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by fatbananas »

Thank you, Turtlegirl. That is very heartening to hear! I think variety is the key.
Seize the day ... before it seizes you.
Cranleigh
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by Cranleigh »

In our school - v large primary - the setting system means that there is effectively a ceiling on how far you can go unless you can move up. Does your school set?

In ours essentially in Y4 one set will end the year a 3c, one a 3b, another a 3a, next 4c another a 4b and the top group a 4a plus approximately. Those in the lower sets in Y4 & Y5 are unlikely to get exposure to the material needed for higher levels in Y5/6. As most seem to make 2 sub levels of progress a year it can be tricky to rise after a while.

Parents aiming for 11 plus and similar take matters into their own hands but there's a growing feeling this is over coaching and we should trust the school to effectively gauge a child's ability. Speaking to independent & grammar heads lately they all seem to be in agreement with this.
fatbananas
Posts: 1411
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:03 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by fatbananas »

My DS is in the top set in one of the best performing state primaries in the country, with a 90 per year intake. He took the 'higher' level optional SAT paper and scraped a 4C. His teacher said he was a bit more firmly at a 4C level, but he was slow and therefore it was hard to 'prove' it. His teacher told me that he is roughly in the middle of his set, but there are children who are nudging a 5 already towards the top end.

I don't unqualifiedly trust the teachers in the school. Some are outstanding; others, particularly last year, were worse than awful. I think the 'over-coaching' argument is specious. Either a child has learned enough to pass the test, or they haven't. I was merely enquiring whether it was possible to learn a certain amount in a particular time frame. Clearly, from the contributions on here, it is possible. Whether it will be so for my DS, only time will tell.
Seize the day ... before it seizes you.
Cranleigh
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by Cranleigh »

I have one that sounds like that Fatbananas currently at a similar level and in Y4. Like your child they understand Maths but mine is far form Speedy Gonzales. I think speed and agility is given high status by teachers. Solid conceptual understanding is just as, more (?) important. Good luck, I would say there's every chance and would be making sure child was topped up at home in a specific, targeted way (let me know when you find out best way :) ).

I agree that there is every chance in the time frame.

Sorry to derail re: over coaching - just I am facing the same issue as you and I was surprised to hear this from key heads lately. Surely, especially, in Maths you have to apply what you have learned so if you don't have the requisite ability you won't do well in the test?
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by mystery »

If the level the school is quoting is purely from the qca higher level year 4 optional sat paper I don't think it is likely that your son has very much to do to get to a low level five. You could easily do it over the summer hols in a few hours quite probably. The reason I say this is because of what you say he is achieving in the bond 9 to 10 papers. They seem to me to cover more curriculum content at a higher level than the b paper for year 4.

It would be helpful for you to see the script he completed as it will give you some insight into his approach and technique in exam conditions. Has the teacher given you any information at all to indicate where he lost marks? It will still be better if you read it yourself as you will have the time to see why you think he got the mark he did e.g. Missed out questions, made skips, did not answer the question exactly as written, missed out some pages etc etc.

Do also check if this affects his setting for next year.
SleepyHead
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Is it possible to go from a 4c to a 5c/b in one year?

Post by SleepyHead »

HI FB

Just re-read this thread and it sounds more to me like exam technique/speed or DS having a bad day rather than ability of of 4c/5c

For example, it might be worth finding out whether DS spent too long on single mark questions not leaving enough time for the higher mark ones. Did DS show is working out and finish the paper?

It really does sound like exam technique / having a bad day rather than ability - can you push for another assessment to get clarification?

On another note - when you do your Bond papers at home do you time them yet?
DD was taking 1.5 hours for Bond papers (seriously! I even posted a thread on that somewhere here) but I am working slowly at bringing this speed down (with the usual bribery :lol: )

Hope this helps
SH
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