Eleven Plus Numerical Reasoning

[southbucks3]

Speaking to ds and his teachers there was nothing in the bucks test above level 4 of s and s, but in the first part you had 24 questions in 10 mins...Like section b, second part there were 16 questions in <10 mins, all like part c or wordier, so Birmingham is obviously different, if they ask for book 5 question a types.

This is why I said all areas were different, I think it is worth looking at the bexley area for advice too. Bucks is looking for about 25% of cohort passing, but all children, pretty much are tested, so the content had to be straight forward, they simply ramped up the speed to a level where most kids could not easily finish.
Slough consortium traditionally pitches around the same level as bucks, but reading and Kendrick are a different kettle of fish again? I hate to say it, but by sharing tests it really is now a guessing game.

My son's school definitely taught maths to level 5 which would equip any child with the tools for cem in bucks, it is simply confidence and speed, particularly with problem solving.

My ds has an eyesight problem which prevents him from working at speed if there is lots to read, had there been lots of questions such as section a in s and s he would have coped far better.

I am sticking to my guns here and saying school level 5, but fast problem solving for the bucks area cem...this past year anyway?
Hopefully you will find a few other areas to compare too sonasona.

[sonasona]

I'm kind of glad I asked the question now Its great to hear your views. I too can't help thinking the Berks/Reading exam will be a bit tougher. I think my Dd will be ok but I've also got a few of her friends relying on me too I think a couple of them may find it tough going following the switch from trad VR/NVR!

Anyway waiting for S&S books to come through in Jan and I'll review the levels we need to be pitching at. So far from the 4 Familiarisation CEM tests which I've (and Tinkers ) found, Dd has actually enjoyed doing them and is finding most of them ok. Bond Maths is also ok.

Sona

[kenyancowgirl]

Southbucks has hit the nail on the head - I think it is different (slightly) in all areas.

My boys were on L6 S&S mental maths as the school started using them when ds2 was in Y3. He was put on book 4 then as that reflected his level - ditto ds1 who was in Y5 and put on book 5. This was not preparation for 11+, this is a state school trying to improve it's maths. My point is, they were both on a solid 5A National Curriculum level when they took the test and they were fine - so a good Level 5 should be more than enough.

We did not tutor. We gave the boys some Bond VR and NVR books in the summer for familiarisation and figured that if they continued plodding through the mental maths they had to do for school, their maths level would be OK. The key, as I said, is quick recall of times tables, as certainly for Warks, the sheer amount of questions and the short time scale is the issue - the test is almost designed not to be completed - but there are always kids that do - so you have to get your child to be as quick (and accurate) as possible. The maths are a combination of the three types in S&S - lots of section A types, some slightly wordier B types and then the harder more problem solving C types. The key is they are all mixed up - there are lots of short sections within the 45 minute papers. One section was only 3 minutes long - and once they have finished the time for that section, they cannot go back to it, if they save time on another section...speed is definitely key. Your mind is required to flit between the different sorts of maths questions and between the NVR and VR - it isn't 20 minutes of maths followed by 25 minutes of VR - it is lots of different sections - some 10 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 12 minutes chopping and changing to take kids out of the zone, I guess.

If your CEM has NVR then it is well worth practising them - a straw poll of our dc's friends showed that the mathematically able tended to find these much easier and it is a good way of picking up points.

[sonasona]

You guys are brill, thanks again DIYMum, KCG and SB3. It's great to have this info up front! Dd is fine with the NVR but we'll keep on top of that too as time progresses.

I'm not one for tutoring, if there were the need I'd be very careful selecting tutors or Tuition centres now Berks/Reading are switching test formats!

[wildwest]

this is a very informative discussion here. I kind of feel a bit grim thinking that I don't know what level DD is, either in maths or in english. The school won't tell me either and their reply tends to be ' We don't work on national curriculum levels. so it is not relevant'. How do you actually know what level your dcs are at in English and Maths?

[sonasona]

this is a very informative discussion here. I kind of feel a bit grim thinking that I don't know what level DD is, either in maths or in english. The school won't tell me either and their reply tends to be ' We don't work on national curriculum levels. so it is not relevant'. How do you actually know what level your dcs are at in English and Maths?

They should be on your child's last report, otherwise just ask next week when school starts and their teacher should be able to tell you (and maybe other some further guidance for improvement if required )

[wildwest]

not really sonasona. I have tried asking, but because it is an independent school, they never talk about National Curriculum levels, neither on the reports nor in conversations with parents

[kenyancowgirl]

This is certainly something that independents are notorious for! The only suggestions I have are that you could pay and ask a reputable tutor to have a session with your dd and ask them what levels she is at? Alternatively, you could try "testing" her on S&S Level 4/5 mental maths - leaving her to it (I can't remember the suggested time for each test but, whatever it is take at least 5 minutes off it) and see how well she does...it would give you a rough tally with the kind of nat curric levels we are talking about.

[Kingfisher]

not really sonasona. I have tried asking, but because it is an independent school, they never talk about National Curriculum levels, neither on the reports nor in conversations with parents

That will be because many of the top flight indies do not assess in this very prescriptive, narrow way and as they do not have to follow the National Curriculum to the letter, there is much more scope for development.

It will not matter. The grammar schools know that many independents don't use them; the entrance test will show what your child can and can't do. How has your DC fared with the wide range of coaching materials?