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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:14 am
Posts: 171
Location: Lincolnshire
Doing the rounds of the secondary schools recently, it was obvious that there was a lot of support for those children that are struggling to reach the required standard at KS3 and this has also been my experience within KS2. Whether it is the correct support, adequate or administered/managed in the correct way is another issue or arguement.

When posing questions about gifted and talented it was all a bit vague? Some said that the teachers assessment from the primary school hilited the gifted and talented, some said it was their SAT results and others were extremely vague and did not give any criteria or explanation as to what they "do" with a gifted and talented pupil let alone how they identify them! When asking primary schools they were also vague in that some said they had to get 5A'S across all 3 subjects and anything below was not good enough, others said it depended on what the average and overall was like in the area whether a 5 was enough. Some secondary schools even said that it was the SAT results that was used for a child to be recognised as G&T and that they could be G&T at PE. How is that measured by SATS I ask myself :?: I was aslo under the impression that not all areas gave the results as 4C, 4B, 4A, 5C, 5B etc I thought that some only said 4 or 5?

When posing the question as to whether their 11+ mark had any bearing it was absolute NO definitely not, we don't even receive their marks. I realise that there can have been coaching in 11+ and therefore maybe this is irrelevant, but is there another argument here? They have had to learn techniques, interpret information etc and is this not a measure of their intelligence :?:

I recently asked my primary school about the National Maths Challenge for Year 6 and was told they did not do it. My son sat this at his previous primary school in Year 5 and those in Year 6 sat it also and he did very well. I thought that all primary schools took part in this challenge on years 5 & 6 and that it was nationwide? I also thought that this could be used as evidence for NAGTY in the future if necessary?

I am not saying that my son is G & T in fact I am sure he is not, but what I am concered about is the fact that I thought I had gathered as much relevant and accurate information as to what my son is undergoing in the education system and how he is measured and what tools are used to measure him, but it appears that I may be under the wrong impression.

Can anyone out there tell me of their understanding concerning CAT tests in primary/secondary schools, the National Maths Challenge, G&T and NAGTY? Look forward to hearing from you.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:47 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: Berks,Bucks
My son's school (Slough Grammar) uses CATs tests to select the G&Ts. I don't know musch about this scheme and would also be interested in finding out more. (not expecting my son to be in this group either)
I am under the impression that the G&Ts are the brightest kids of the school, whether it is selective or not, so the G&Ts in grammars are the top of the top. Not sure....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:49 am 
Hi SJ,

The criteria for identifying Gifted and Talented can be found on the NAGTY website. NFER reasoning tests can be used as can SATS scores along with CATs, and various other measures.

Daughter's school uses their results at MidYIS tests. I notice that children at the primary school mine attend are being given G&T tags now - usually it is written in the bit of their school report which also gives their curriculum level - I'm not sure what the criterion they use is - I assume it is being so many levels above the expected one for their age - will try and find out from someone - none of mine at primary fall into this category!! :)

Seems like different schools all use different criteria and have different attitudes to how useful it is...

Sara


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:02 pm 
My daughters grammar school uses CAT tests carried out at the beginning of year 7 to assess who they believe are gifted (but not talented) From what she told me they are much easier than the eleven plus tests. To give you some idea of the sort of standard, when my son was preparing for his eleven plus my daughter, out of interest, did two NFER non verbal papers. She scored mid 65 and 72 (as a percentage) respectively and was aged 11 years 10 months. Of course with further practice she could well have got a higher score.

In the CAT tests she scored 125 for NV which put her in the top 5% nationally. She will be going on the gifted register,(anyone scoring average of 119 over three papers of verbal, quantitative and non verbal are identified. This puts them in the top 10% nationally I believe), but as yet I don't know what this involves. If it is just extra work for the sake of it , then this will be no use to her as she is a very slow worker and would not be able to keep up.
To become a member of NAGTY I believe you need to demonstate you are in the top 5% nationally. I would be interested to know if being a member produces an increase in qualifications obtained, or opens up other opportunities for children . Also I would like to know if CAT tests are accepted as proof of this for NAGTY.

Any information would be most appreciated.

Deb


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:12 pm 
Thanks Sara,

Just found the criteria I needed on the NAGTY website and she would qualify for membership. The jury is out though on whether it would be of any actual benefit to my daughter. Her head is in the clouds most of the time. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:43 am
Posts: 118
Hi our grammar keeps a register of G and T children but it is their policy not to disclose this to the parents or children. Therefore as far as I understand pupils are not put forward for NAGTY.I have had a look at their website and they run some fun courses for instance Forensic Science.

Our feeder school didn't enter pupils for level 6 SATS.My daughter was level 5b in maths in year 5 but at the end of year 6 she had level 5 on her report as they don't subdivide then or let them enter higher levels.She cruised along in year 7 gaining 95% in her end of year exam.In her report it was asked that she complete class work as quickly as possible so that she can go on to extension work.She is also given extension homework.

I am considering putting her forward myself for NAGTY.Anyone else a member and think it is worthwhile?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:59 pm 
Both of my children are at junior school and are on the gifted and talented list for English. They are on it for their ability to write fantastic stories and for poetry. However neither are on it for maths - even though my eldest was also a level 5 year 5. Apparantly they use this list so they can give extra workshops and develop the specific talents at an earlier age. I believe the top 'clever' 5% if there is not an individual talent, are targeted at senior school level where they should be separated occaisionaly for more challenging work.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:22 pm 
NAGTY membership is only for senior school level. Gifted and talented identification at junior school level I would guess would follow some guidelines from National or County level but I don't know what these are and how much they may vary from place to place and school to school. One child at our school I know got her "label" after achieving level 5a in all the year 5 QCA tests.

Incidentally, it is no longer possible to be examined for a level 6 in KS2 maths, though you can still get a teacher assessment at this level - you would need to know some of the KS3 curriculum to obtain it.

Sara


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