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 Post subject: age standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:44 am 
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can anyone tell me in terms of actual points how many more a mid August child would be awarded for AGGS?


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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:52 pm 
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I know nothing of Trafford, so it could be different, but here is an explanation of standardisation:

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advice ... xplanation

This means that no actual points are added - just that each pupil is only compared to those born in the same month as them. The theory is that those born (for example) in September are likely to score more highly that those born in August. In reality if the August born children scored just as highly as the September born ones they would require the same number correct to achive the pass mark. If the August born children scored consistently lower than the older children they would need a lower raw score to achieve the same standardised score.


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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:53 pm 
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It isn't really possible to answer as it will vary year on year depending on how the other children of the same age in the cohort get on.


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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:06 pm 
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Hello, i asked this question last year on the forum.....evidently it is very diffcult to answer. However there was formula on this site, which i found useful, and used that as rough measurement of DS standardized score, however that formula is not for age standardization but only taking the mean score of 100....so it is not accurate, but gave me a some sort of idea. I will post the formula if i find it, but it should on this website.


Last edited by Oshosh on Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Oshosh wrote:
Hello, i asked this question last year on the forum.....evidently it is very diffcult to answer. However there was formula on this site, which i found useful, and used that as rough measurement of DS standardized score, however that formula is not for age standardization but only taking the mean score of 100....so it is not accurate, but gave me a some sort of idea. I will post the formula if i find, but it should on this website.



If no age allowance were to be applied to the standardised scores, then the equation for converting raw scores to standardised scores with a mean (average) score of 100 is

S = 15(b — a)/sd + 100

where S is the pupil’s standardised score, b is the pupil’s raw score, a is the average raw score of all the pupils, and sd is the standard deviation of the raw scores.

I took SD as 15, average raw score of all pupils as 45 for an 80 questions paper, and 50 for 85 questions paper.

This is only rough estimate....by no means accurate.....


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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:32 pm 
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If both children in this example – the oldest one and the youngest one – achieve the identical “raw score”, the youngest child’s final 11+ score will be higher than that of the oldest child. The standardisation process has “awarded” extra marks to the younger child to compensate for their younger age. Every test paper is unique in the factors that go into standardising it but if both children achieved a raw score of 75/80, a very rough outcome could be that the older child’s standardised score might be approximately 133, while the younger child’s score could be around 136. (Please note that these figures are given as examples only and do not represent actual marks.)

I have just found this... would it mean that my DS - whose birthday is in September, 'could' have been awarded a few less marks than others at the standardisation process? ("To make it fair for younger boys"??) :(


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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:52 pm 
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Location: Essex
Olliesmum wrote:
If both children in this example – the oldest one and the youngest one – achieve the identical “raw score”, the youngest child’s final 11+ score will be higher than that of the oldest child. The standardisation process has “awarded” extra marks to the younger child to compensate for their younger age. Every test paper is unique in the factors that go into standardising it but if both children achieved a raw score of 75/80, a very rough outcome could be that the older child’s standardised score might be approximately 133, while the younger child’s score could be around 136. (Please note that these figures are given as examples only and do not represent actual marks.)

I have just found this... would it mean that my DS - whose birthday is in September, 'could' have been awarded a few less marks than others at the standardisation process? ("To make it fair for younger boys"??) :(


As scary mum says above, the idea of age standardisation is that children are compared with those of like age, crudely the September-born with the September-born, the December-born with the December-born and so on. That will give for each subgroup a mean and standard deviation. The mean raw score for each group will be the standardised score of 100 for that group; the underlying raw scores for any given standardised score will depend on the mean and standard deviation (and may/will be different for each group and may / will be higher for the Septembers than the Augusts), but when all the standardised scores are put in one long ranked list, two scores the same - say 115 - are now equal, regardless of the fact that one child got a raw score of, say, 60% and the other got 65%.

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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:15 pm 
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Olliesmum - I imagine all schools use the same process and the headmaster at AGSB was quizzed on it at the open evening I attended. He said it would make a difference of 1 or 2 marks at most.

If you're asking on the basis of using it as an argument in an appeal, as Tiddlymum says there are other areas which would be more likely to influence the panel than standardisation I would think.


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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:17 pm 
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Mandy21 wrote:
Olliesmum - I imagine all schools use the same process and the headmaster at AGSB was quizzed on it at the open evening I attended. He said it would make a difference of 1 or 2 marks at most.

If you're asking on the basis of using it as an argument in an appeal, as Tiddlymum says there are other areas which would be more likely to influence the panel than standardisation I would think.

You do know that this thread is from 2014?


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 Post subject: Re: age standardisation
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 1425
Oshosh wrote:
Oshosh wrote:
Hello, i asked this question last year on the forum.....evidently it is very diffcult to answer. However there was formula on this site, which i found useful, and used that as rough measurement of DS standardized score, however that formula is not for age standardization but only taking the mean score of 100....so it is not accurate, but gave me a some sort of idea. I will post the formula if i find, but it should on this website.



If no age allowance were to be applied to the standardised scores, then the equation for converting raw scores to standardised scores with a mean (average) score of 100 is

S = 15(b — a)/sd + 100

where S is the pupil’s standardised score, b is the pupil’s raw score, a is the average raw score of all the pupils, and sd is the standard deviation of the raw scores.

I took SD as 15, average raw score of all pupils as 45 for an 80 questions paper, and 50 for 85 questions paper.

This is only rough estimate....by no means accurate.....


Oshosh - I got Data Protection details of my DD's raw scores from both CEM tests she took. The cohort average was presumed to be 55%. After wide spread reporting that the CEM exams were easier, people suggested at one point raw score cohort averages might be as high as 60%.

In facts they were between 51-53% from the stats we have knocked together, so Kids did not find them easier or harder. Still we have seen jumps of 3-4 standardised points needed to gain entry to the grammars this year. I played around with standard deviation and used 12.5 instead of 15 for modelling purposes.

In a massively competitive scenario ie the cohort is 6000, I would say approaching 70%, in a less competitive scenario say 1500 sitters, perhaps 65% on the test might do it.

Lot of people think only people getting 95% have a chance which is nonsense. At the margins Age can have a big effect. We saw instances where an older child lost 5 or so standardised marks for one question wrong if they were the very older in the cohort.

PP

Hope that helps


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