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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:32 pm 
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I can understand the stress all the parents posting here have had to try and get there children into a grammar school, but can't help but notice that most who post to say DD /DS has a place seem to be stockport, didsbury, manchester and warrington.
Whilst this is great for those children, what about local children!? :? The pass level for the selectives has been pushed up and up as evidenced by the huge numbers of private school children spilling out of cars on entrance exam days and all the discussion re tutoring.

My own experience as a child in altrincham was that all girls at AGGS and boys SGS ( brother went there) were local- we had the very few ( one or two) from Knutsford or Lymm on a reciprocal arrangement only ( some local kids went there), approx 40%-50% of local children went to the grammars, no-one was tutored

My experience for my children ( we are local) has been that one just squeaked into grammar, the second ( bright child) just missed out and was devastated as many of his friends did pass for the GS ( it being local to us)-
Whilst he is at an excellent high school it is nonetheless selective by it's locality as the top 20% of pupils are creamed off to grammar, he is doing well academically, but this has a knock on effect now we are looking to sixth forms, as he will have to apply to the few places available at the grammars which may be pot luck- the local high school and college simply do not achieve the success that several of the non selective area sixth forms have in the surrounding areas (stockport, mancheter etc) So he has to try and secure a grammar place or travel a long distance to get decent A'level outcomes.
Children in the surrounding areas have excellent high schools with a full range of ability and none of the trafford disadvantages when it comes to sixth form and yet are tutored into my local schools reducing the chances for local children who have no choice of school system.
Why should local children be forced down the tutoring route to get the best of the education system we are paying the house prices for? ( we live here as family are local and we grew up here).

Just had to get that off my chest :evil: I do realise most parents will always try to f#do the best by there own child, it is the system which is wrong/unfair! :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:09 pm 
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All local children who pass for AGSB are allocated a place in front of non local children who have to attain a higher score. Same for AGGS in the main. I don't agree that local children miss out as a result of non local children sitting and passing the exam.i also think it's quite right that local children take priority in this way.

If there were closer grammars then no doubt we would select those in preference, but there aren't. And I wouldn't want to move house either as we are very happy living where we live.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Totally agree Timpmum.

Trafford is facing a huge shortage of secondary school places within the next few years, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that grammar school places being taken by non local children is a contributing factor.

We've lived here for 20 odd years and to be honest, much as we like it here, if we'd known what the school system was like we would have gone elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:27 pm 
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I have to agree with tm on this, I am from Warrington and have a son who is now at Lymm High who passed for Alty but because we live in Warrington he was denied a place, I have today received my dd's choice of school and the same again, Alty and Loreto, she scored extremely high for both but again by distance, she is denied a place. Local children are not denied a place at all.

I know for a fact that if your child narrowly scrapes past the pass mark, bearing in mind that u live local then u are guaranteed a place at these selective grammars. As for whether its "fair/unfair" all I can say is, and this is my own opinion, I do feel a tad frustrated, as kids who are tutored to the eyeballs plus probably still being tutored come Sep, scraping past the pass mark is allocated a place whereas a child not being tutored scoring a very high mark is denied, because of distance, surely these grammars want the cream of the crop don't they?!!

Like I said, my opinion so I hope I have not offended anyone!! :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:08 am 
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I have lived in Timperley all my life and went to AGGS. I went to a local primary school and recall 8 girls from my class passing their 11 plus and I think probably around 4 or 5 boys. In a class of approx 30 that would mean almost half of us went to Grammar School. Fast forward 30 years when it was my eldest's turn and only 2 girls and 2 boys (out of a class of 37) passed. Those statistics say it all, similar to the OP's experience - a much higher proportion of local kids went to the Grammars compared to today. Do I think local kids have lost places ... yes I do! Local kids haven't suddenly become stupid - tutoring, bigger catchment and the huge number of applications have all contributed. I don't recall anyone living further than a bike ride away, everyone was from Bowdon, Altrincham, Hale, Hale Barns and Timperley. I wasn't tutored and I doubt anybody else was either (not including the prep people) ... it was assumed that if you were 'bright' you would pass. I was quite shocked when I visited the school on an open day a couple of years ago at just how much it has changed. It wasn't half as posh :D as it is today, we used to wear baseball boots and carried khaki customised :mrgreen: school bags from the Army and Navy (yes the girls) .... we did look a mess but TBH nobody really cared what we looked like. Happy days!

I don't blame parents who live outside of Trafford for trying.... at the end of the day, if they know their child has a chance of a place at a Grammar School they are going to try their hardest to help their kids get there. I guess it's down to a mix of clever kids, savy parents, good tutoring and a lot of hard work! (applies to wherever you live :D )

I don't mind if people from outside of Trafford want to send their children here. The intense competition for places has raised standards and year after year they achieve examination results other education authorities can only dream of. This has rippled through to the local High Schools who also achieve outstanding results. And I have to say, such is the clamour to obtain a place at one of our Grammar Schools that the value of my house has risen considerably which can only be a good thing :D

Sorry, I have gone off on a tangent. I don't mean to be flippant, not all my children went to Grammar School, infact the one that didn't go is the cleverest and got better GCSE/A Levels than one that did. And as for the one that is currently at Grammar ... she is doing ok. And while I'm on a roll - I do wish someone would find a better way of selecting who is suitable for a Grammar School education. I can honestly say that they got it all mixed up with me and my kids ... the one that should have passed didn't, the one that did pass wasn't interested, the one that shouldn't have passed but did is doing great. And me? I spent most of my time there thinking I was an imposter and that they would find me out and send me off packing to the Secondary Mod!

Back to the OP. I agree with you. House prices are very high and we also bought here because it is where we are from and I wanted my kids to go to the same school as me. It is a struggle to keep going sometimes and I often wonder if there was any point in buying here. In hindsight I think not. It does appear from these boards that there are a number of pupils who travel quite a distance to school. Are there any statistics somewhere? One day, when school is done we will reap the rewards and be off to some far flung place where they have never heard of the 11 plus and definitely no schools within a 50 mile radius!

And yes, I agree from a local perspective that some local children must have missed out on places as a result. In an ideal world, there would be Grammar schools everywhere and local kids could then go to local schools but if your local school is rubbish .... then what do you do? I don't know because I haven't looked but surely not all schools outside of Trafford are so bad? Perhaps we should all vote for Nigel :lol:

Hope I haven't offended anyone, we all want the best for our kids and it's just the way I see it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:26 am 
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I'm with you Timpmum. AGSB takes on average a third of OOC boys. Boys come from far and wide around Manchester including one boy traveling from Cumbria every day to attend the school! As a result local children are losing out. It also means that it can be difficult for children to catch up with their class mate's out of school.
Additionally we have to pay a premium to live in Trafford and one of the main reasons is because of the good schools. The downside of the Grammar system is if the child is unsuccessful, the alternatives are not great, other than a couple of the high schools like Wellington but then you have to live on the doorstep to get a place. We haven't got a chance of accessing the great out of Trafford comprehensives like Wilmslow!
I think there is a group that have been speaking to the Trafford MP, Graham Brady to try and ensure Trafford schools are for Trafford children.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:58 am 
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Rosetinted- there is a freedom of information result about OOC children accessing Trafford grammar schools, which can be found through google. I think it is about 1/3 AGSB/ AGGS and a good half for Loreto/ Ambrose.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:07 am 
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Loreto now has new rules which essentially offer places (after looking after the Trafford feeder primary schools) to those with the highest scores regardless of distance from the school, Yunny.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:37 am 
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AGGS changed their catchment area to "up to" 8 miles from the school, now in practice it only seems to go as far as 6 in recent years and yes shrinking by 0.1 of a mile each year. False boundaries such as postcode, council districts etc are just that false. how can you explain to a child that because they live in a postcode 7/8 miles from a school they deserve to have the opportunity to be schooled at a Grammar school and a child who lives 3/4 miles away in the wrong "type" of postcode does not. Local to me means nearest and if that is a WA11/13/16 postcode ahead of a WA14 or WA15 then tough!

Aren't the Grammar schools academies these days centrally funded? Surely then they have the right to award places to the brightest kids without reference to the postcode. AGGS seem to understand this, I do hope for the sake of the boys that AGBS wake up and realise that there are plenty of very bright boys who live within their 8 mile radius and hence "Local". The old boys club that is Trafford needs to be blown apart and we need to stop this postcode lottery. There is nothing more unfair in life than the unequal treatment of equals.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:49 am 
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Location: Cheshire
This has always been a contentious issue.

What do we mean by local?

if local is defined as proximity to a given school then for AGSB for example there are several anomalies ; Agden which falls into Maccesfield is closer than the outer reaches of Timperley, ,yet it is OOC!

if you go by postcode, Warburton is in Trafford and in catchment but has a post-code WA13 same as Lymm which is out of catchment!

parts of Sale are in catchment for both SGS and AGSB

I think AGGS has got it right 6mile radius (realistically) captures all of Trafford as far out as Urmston and Stretford and other more"local" areas like Lymm(parts of which are closer than some areas of WA15 to AGSB!)


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