First Exam done
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Guest
Some children do not shine at primary school - they might be shy or nervous at school, they might even be late developers.
But once they have 1-1 tuition with a tutor or parent they feel at ease if they get something wrong and can ask questions. A shy child in a classroom hates speaking aloud and will do anything to avoid attention.
I know a few children who fit into this catergory who have been dismissed as non-grammar school types by teachers and other parents and then to gain a position at a top school and then do very well at secondary school.
But once they have 1-1 tuition with a tutor or parent they feel at ease if they get something wrong and can ask questions. A shy child in a classroom hates speaking aloud and will do anything to avoid attention.
I know a few children who fit into this catergory who have been dismissed as non-grammar school types by teachers and other parents and then to gain a position at a top school and then do very well at secondary school.
Hi
Just to flip this discussion on its head.
For the majority of children passing the 11+ test is an indication of future potential.
But
Not passing the test is not a sign that a child does not have academic potential as is proven by those children who do not pass the 11+ but achieve GCSE and A level results at high school that are comparable to the higher performing and/or mid-performing children at grammar school.
On the suject of tutoring children for VR.
Yes, it is possible, if the format of the test is known, to tutor a child extensively for the tests. Most children who pass the test have had some form of tuition whether paid or DIY'd. But, not all children who are tutored pass the test. The main reasons for this are; the time element of the test, DIYers using incorrect material, personal issues and the ability of the child.
Regards
Mike
Just to flip this discussion on its head.
For the majority of children passing the 11+ test is an indication of future potential.
But
Not passing the test is not a sign that a child does not have academic potential as is proven by those children who do not pass the 11+ but achieve GCSE and A level results at high school that are comparable to the higher performing and/or mid-performing children at grammar school.
On the suject of tutoring children for VR.
Yes, it is possible, if the format of the test is known, to tutor a child extensively for the tests. Most children who pass the test have had some form of tuition whether paid or DIY'd. But, not all children who are tutored pass the test. The main reasons for this are; the time element of the test, DIYers using incorrect material, personal issues and the ability of the child.
Regards
Mike
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Guest
I don't think that the 11plus is an ideal system but probably the fairest we've got to date.
I used to think that kids should be assessed on their SAT's, school reports, personal interviews etc, but now I realise that this is no fairer either. If this had been the case when my eldest daughter sat the exam she never would have got in. The school let her down badly in Year 5 when they had a whole year of various supply teachers as their new teacher had a bad back. The class basically had to fend for itself most of the time and as a result most kids didn't acheive their expected results for SATs in year six. Also you might find youself competing with a more affluent school with better quality of teachers etc...and what about schools which actively support the 11plus system...you'd come up against all of them and not stand a chance.
I personally feel the only fair way would be to have a test, which nobody could adequately revise for. Completely unknown to anyone. Test them generally on a bit of everything....maths, english, logical thinking, science, geography...
HOWEVER this would soon become no different from the current 11plus tests...people would coach for it etc....so what's the point of changing it. AND I don't think it's fair for kids to sit an exam and not know what is expected of them.
Perhaps there should be very clear pre-exam information to ALL pupils sitting the exam - telling them roughly what to expect - the sort of timing they should be aiming for - and the average pass marks etc....
Tutors have a far better idea of this - parents have some idea, but some poor DIY's and 'hopefuls' have no idea.
I used to think that kids should be assessed on their SAT's, school reports, personal interviews etc, but now I realise that this is no fairer either. If this had been the case when my eldest daughter sat the exam she never would have got in. The school let her down badly in Year 5 when they had a whole year of various supply teachers as their new teacher had a bad back. The class basically had to fend for itself most of the time and as a result most kids didn't acheive their expected results for SATs in year six. Also you might find youself competing with a more affluent school with better quality of teachers etc...and what about schools which actively support the 11plus system...you'd come up against all of them and not stand a chance.
I personally feel the only fair way would be to have a test, which nobody could adequately revise for. Completely unknown to anyone. Test them generally on a bit of everything....maths, english, logical thinking, science, geography...
HOWEVER this would soon become no different from the current 11plus tests...people would coach for it etc....so what's the point of changing it. AND I don't think it's fair for kids to sit an exam and not know what is expected of them.
Perhaps there should be very clear pre-exam information to ALL pupils sitting the exam - telling them roughly what to expect - the sort of timing they should be aiming for - and the average pass marks etc....
Tutors have a far better idea of this - parents have some idea, but some poor DIY's and 'hopefuls' have no idea.
don't start me on my pet subject! My dd goes to a large state primary with a very diverse catchement area. I know for a fact that there are children in her class who would not only benefit from a grammar school education, but for whom such an opportunity would probably be their only possible doorway into a better life. But they haven't got a hope of passing because their parents either don't have the knowledge, or the money or ever possibly the interest to give them the coaching necessary. Particularly as the bar has been raised so high by coached middle class children (like my daughter!) who are being given yet another opportunity in their opportunity filled lives. It makes me so sad - and yet I still go along with it. Why wasn't the 11+ abolished everywhere, does anybody know?
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Primary mum
You go along with it because you want the best for your kids like everyone else.
I too would like to see the eleven plus abolished. It's an unfair method and the middle class kids who are tutored and sent to prep which also cater for this exam get an advantage.
My daughters primary has no interest in 11+ and does not take in the school. So we had to DIY and take her to the school to take it.
We could not afford prep school or tutors.
we have to wait one 6 weeks for the result, which is probably a fail due to the high standard prep kids she will be up against.
I too would like to see the eleven plus abolished. It's an unfair method and the middle class kids who are tutored and sent to prep which also cater for this exam get an advantage.
My daughters primary has no interest in 11+ and does not take in the school. So we had to DIY and take her to the school to take it.
We could not afford prep school or tutors.
we have to wait one 6 weeks for the result, which is probably a fail due to the high standard prep kids she will be up against.
Oh Katel and Primary Mum....my pet subject too! Better not let me get started, I'm not even supposed to be here...Not from the Wirral and don't want to get told off for not playing in my own playground!!! 
(Primary Mum - hope your daughter makes it - one in the eye for the system and an even greater achievement for her and you!!)
In closing (yes I'm going, I'm going!!)... our local primary not only takes no interest but actively discourages and sneers at the 11plus system!
(Primary Mum - hope your daughter makes it - one in the eye for the system and an even greater achievement for her and you!!)
In closing (yes I'm going, I'm going!!)... our local primary not only takes no interest but actively discourages and sneers at the 11plus system!
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newbie but stressed
