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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:52 am
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Hi there
I'm new to this site as I have stumbled across it while looking for info about 11+ results as I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the Upton results this year - particularly after reading the Wirral story. Hope you might be able to offer some info and advice.

DD failed by 5 standardised marks. She passed paper 2 but scored much lower on paper 1. Others I have spoken to also seemed to score much lower on paper 1 (even those that passed). I raised it with Upton and they have said that the results reflect previous years. But I asked them for her raw scores as thought that might help with the appeal.

Despite one paper being shorter once standardised both scores are out of 140 so have equal weighting in the final mark.

DD achieved 64/75 in paper 1 which resulted in a standardised score of 111. I asked what raw score she would have required to obtain a standardised score of 116 (which would have meant an overall pass for her) and was told it was 69/75. Given that the SAS should be in a range where the maximum score is 140 (and the minimum c.70), this means that standardised score scale reflects raw scores moving 5 standardised points (111-116) between 64-69, while 70-75 jumps massively to 23 standard score points (117-140+). This doesn't seem right

Also, with these figures, the raw score to achieve a pass of 118 for that paper is a minimum of 70/75 for DD (although given the earlier increments 71/75 would be more likely). Given that she is a January birthday, probably higher for a child born in September - 72/75? This seems far too high for a pass mark.

This might have happened because the results were very good and lots of girls scored 71+ on the paper. I know there are lots of clever girls out there.

Does anyone have any thoughts, or a similar experience?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:02 pm
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Hi dont know if i will be much help
My dd is also a january birth - she sat the upton hall exams and passed
her scores were paper 1 = 115 paper 2 = 132

i would of thought that the standardised marks for paper 1 would be less than paper 2 as paper 1 only had 75 questions and paper 2 had 85. So surely they both wont then be standardised into 140 each
everyone seems to have scored lower on paper 1. so it will either mean that it was a harder paper or the standardised score was less than 140


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:31 am 
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Thanks Bati - Your daughter has done brilliantly you must be v. proud. Thanks for sharing her marks, it is very helpful as she also scored significantly lower on Paper 1 and didn't reach the pass mark for that paper (118).

I have checked it out with the school and despite Paper 1 having fewer questions, both papers are standardised into marks out of 140 and have equal weighting in the overall score.

The standardised score takes the difficulty of the paper into account as the average score=100. So it shouldn't make a difference if the paper is harder as the average will be lower. Unless lots of girls scored incredibly highly I don't know how this discrepancy has arisen.

Does anyone know of girls who scored highly on paper 1 - 130+?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:04 am 
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Its a difficult one and if it has been messed up it will be difficult to prove
I know Upton hall send off the papers to be marked and standardized, is there anyway you could find out where they get sent to and phone these people directly. Would Upton hall give you the details


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:28 am 
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To be honest, I have tried speaking to the school and they have been very helpful - up to a point when I said that I think that there has been an error - since then they haven't got back to me.

I'm OK because I was already putting in appeal anyway and I can raise it then - although it isn't until March. If I am right, I am concerned that there potentially will be girls who haven't passed and won't put Upton as a preference so might miss out on a place due to to an administrative error.

Given that from this site, there does seem to be fewer passing this year AND a large proportion who did significantly worse on Paper 1, I will attempt to raise it with the head teacher again. I jsut hope it doesn't prejudice my appeal.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:41 am 
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Nobody in my DS school failed 11+ (only around 10 took the exam).

But a few failed Upton so does seem strange. My DD found Upton much easier a few years back when she took the test.

I expect this year may be oversubscribed on the 11+ grammars.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:42 am 
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i would definately try and get hold of the company who make and mark the papers, only because as far as i was aware schools dont know how the standardisation is worked out either and upton might be giving you the wrong info (i might be wrong)
do you know if children have done worse on paper 1 in years before
I would also ask if alot more children as a % failed this yr than previous yrs
Have you thought about emailing all your questions to them rather than phoning, you might get a response and then you would be able to print this out for your appeal rather than just a phone call where you have no proof of what is said iyswim
There is an appeal section on this forum which might be able to help you more with your appeal


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:34 am 
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I don't understand the low scores on paper 1 either- I am happy to share my daughter's scores as they are very low on paper 1 and very high on paper 2 and so fall into your pattern. She is a November birthday. She found paper one easy and paper two harder. I understand that because there were fewer questions on paper one it means that they would have to get only a few questions wrong to get a low mark once standardised.
paper 1 =114
paper 2 = 137
total = 251
11+ total=149
I hope this helps.
I think the issue with these exams and the 11+ is the lack of transparency and accountability of the private companies who undertake them. I feel the GL Assessment shambles has meant many parents have lost trust in the current system and there needs to be a review of how schools in Wirral select pupils and whether we should continue to put our children through this cruel and unfair system.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Thanks Bati - agree that writing is the way forward and most of my comms with them so far has been via email. Good questions too - will def ask that.

JFKpippin, I completely agree about the lack of transparency. The other problem with the use of private companies, is that I don't think the schools even fully understand the standardisation and will accept the results of the private 'experts' regardless of how counterintuitive they are. Using common sense your daughters extremely high marks (well done to her!) reinforce my view that there has been a cock up in the standardisation - how can she score almost full marks on Paper 2 which was the more difficult paper, and fail to meet the standard in Paper 1?

I still haven't heard of anyone who met the standard of 118 in Paper 1, never mind scored 130+


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:55 am
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Hi Nove,

We are in exactly the same situation as you - We are going to appeal, it seems so strange that the first score is so very very low compared to second paper? and everyone that is posting is in the same boat

Have you managed to get any further with the school? I have heard a lot of people passing 11+ but failing upton. we unfortunately only took Upton as DD was dead set on this school. Absolutely devestated at out come. Just don't know where to turn for help, if it has been an error how awful for the children like ours who have been penalised.


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