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 Post subject: birthday points
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:05 pm 
Hi I'm sure it has been asked before, but I couldnt find the answer, how do they work out the birthday points. My sons bithday is may, does this mean he gets extra points, or am I reading it incorrectly. He only decided he would be doing his 11+ 2 weeks ago, so we have not prepared for it. He did his 2nd practice paper today and got 82 %, the first one he did, he didnt finish, but managed 75%, so I realise that he would not pass based on his 2 practice ones. The one today he left out one whole section as he'd never encountered them before.

Sorry if this has been asked before

S


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:00 am
Posts: 438
Hi,WirralS,

If you type in 'standardised score' in the google search box at the top of this page there is a table that may help you work out birthday points.

Hope this helps.

Scatshouse.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:38 pm 
Still not really sure what it means, but thank you anyway.

S


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:29 pm
Posts: 2049
Location: Wirral
Hi WirralS,

We have all come to the conclusion you need to work for NFER to find out how the birthday points (standardised score) actually works..

Here is a post from the Bucks section where somebody asked a similar question. Bucks is the closest format to Wirral’s 11+, 2 VR papers, 80 questions, 50 mins to answer them.

Hope these help explain the in explainable..

Sally-Anne wrote:
Hi Selena

Ooooh - my favourite subject! :(

Standardisation is a dreadful concept, and I think most of us really have only the haziest idea how it really works. For a full understanding, try here, and the NFER link from that page:

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/standardised_scores.php

If you fall at the first hurdle on all of that (as I always have done), the approximate pass mark for Bucks is 86%. A November birthday will need to score around 90% to pass.

Sally-Anne



And I totally agree with the reply from gfp.


gfp wrote:
Sally-Anne wrote:

Standardisation is a dreadful concept, and I think most of us really have only the haziest idea how it really works.

Sally-Anne


I think the reason that most of us have only a hazy idea of how it works is that we're not being told!

The links you give only tell us why standardisation is applied. The NFER website's page on "age standardisation" pretends to explain it but it gives a standardisation formula that takes no account of age and a useless table. We all know actual figures vary each year but NFER must have plenty of historical data that could be used to illustrate now age standardiation works.

The bit that worries me from the above page is

"This is because pupils are, in effect, only being compared with other pupils of the same age as themselves."

"in effect"! Does that mean that they're not actually "only being compared with other pupils of the same age"? Are they just applying some previously calculated penalty to give the effect?

I would like to read some published research into how test scores vary with age and how the correction is applied, but maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.


Sorry I couldn't help you anymore..

Good Luck..

AM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:28 pm
Posts: 197
Location: PENSBY
I am confused now,I always thought if the pass mark was 85% then a birthday after Nov would have to score less than that to pass,not as this suggests that a Nov bitrthday has to score more!!

"If you fall at the first hurdle on all of that (as I always have done), the approximate pass mark for Bucks is 86%. A November birthday will need to score around 90% to pass. "qoute from sally-Anne

I thought that for each month your child is younger than 11 when they sit the exam they would be given"standarisation"points,so a July birthday could pass on 80% and a Nov birthday would need the full 85%,this made sense but according to sally-Annes comment above a July bithday has to score 85% and a Nov birthday wolud need 90%

Can any one please clarify,having a Nov birthday son it would be good to know if I'm completely wrong!!

Confused Pensby :!: :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:32 pm
Posts: 6963
Location: East Kent
they are used a lot on statistics, to make it a "level playing field" your score is compared to loads of others nationally and adjusted so that if you are older or younger than the norm then it can be directly compared. Useful fo rthing =s like reading tests. Achild may have appeared to have risen in reading age, but when you take thier age into account it is negligible or even a drop against their peers.

Does this help??

http://www.nfer.ac.uk/research-areas/as ... -ranks.cfm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:53 am 
I think sally-anne is talking about raw scores from the tests. The 85% for a July child will be enough for a pass but a Nov child who is 8 months older will have to score a raw score of 90% to make the pass mark.

A nov child cannot score less as he gets no/little? adjustment, so he needs a high score as he would have learnt more etc etc. The younger the child, the more adjustments are made seeing as they have less time to practise,learn,mature whatever.
I'm not sure about the actual pass figures as such but to me 'standardisation' is the above principle applied.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:57 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:29 pm
Posts: 2049
Location: Wirral
Hi Pensby,

As far as I'm aware, November birthdays do not get any extra points added. The percentages given were for the Bucks tests they have the same type of papers but out of the 2 papers they have to score at least 121 on one paper to pass.
Ours however we have to accumulate a combined score of 236 this I'm sure is 85% although Mike is probably the best person to confirm this. I'm not sure when you start gaining points regarding birthdays and again maybe Mike could let us know.

Sorry for all the confusion..

AM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:29 pm
Posts: 2049
Location: Wirral
Quote:
I thought that for each month your child is younger than 11 when they sit the exam they would be given"standarisation"points,so a July birthday could pass on 80% and a Nov birthday would need the full 85%,this made sense but according to sally-Annes comment above a July bithday has to score 85% and a Nov birthday wolud need 90%



This was for the Bucks section, posted on the Bucks section as I stated.
I quoted this on here as it explains nobody has a clue how NFER actually work out points. This is kept in a "Top Secret Vault at NFER" never to be seen by parents.. :shock:

AM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:00 am
Posts: 438
Hi,
Could anybody clarify? As I'm really confused now, my son is a September birthday so should he be aiming for 85% or 90% as a pass for Wirral??

Thanks,
Scatshouse.


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