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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:44 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Patricia,

My ds takes his 11+ this year and we are at the stage of practising timed papers using 'The Tutors' (just completed Paper 7B). His speed has improved enormously from when we first started but he is still not quite completing the papers in time (needs between 3-6 mins more to finish and he is already leaving out Type Z).

My worry is that once we start on the more difficult papers (Susan Daughtrey next week!), he will be way over time again and become disheartened. So, I was thinking that instead of starting off with full S. D. papers I would get him to work on sections of them but time each section so he keeps his speed up.

Does this sound like a sensible approach to you or would you go straight to doing a full paper? And also, can I be cheeky :) and ask if you have a breakdown of the timings you get your students to aim for for each question type?

Many many thanks in advance,

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Cassandra


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:11 pm 
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Dear Cassandra

I will not be starting Susan Daughtrey until the week of 5 July, that gives me 12 weeks to complete them [8 tests] followed by Nfer [4 tests]. I would keep using Daughtrey as tests, timing as usual. You say his timings have improved enormously since the beginning. I can assure you they will continue to improve if you keep up the tests over the next few months.

Have you observed your son completing the test, does he make notes on all maths and codes, not making notes actually slows them down. Is he concentrating on the test, not looking out the window. Make sure he is not rubbing out his workings. I have a few perfectionists, who are forever reaching for their rubbers, I just say Nooooo as soon as see their hands reach out

There is a thread on speeding up somewhere, I will look for it.

Are you completing a session in between tests? During these weekly sessions I would be timing per section. A break down of my timings would be difficult, because I vary depending on the publisher and the particular test I am using.

Some rough guide examples would be types O and R 15/20 seconds per question. Type C 30/40 seconds per question. Type N to crack the code and answer the 3 questions under 2 minutes. All maths less than 30 seconds, some only 10 seconds.

Patricia


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:03 am 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Patricia,

Thanks so much for your advice (will do the S.D as timed papers) and reassurance about getting faster with more practice. It is sometimes really difficult not to go into panic about this!

I watched DS doing a paper at the weekend - he is making notes for maths/codes and isn't daydreaming, wasting time rubbing out, etc but the main problem timing wise seemed to be the Type L codes. I timed this section (without him knowing) and it took him over 12 mins - clearly far too long!

He got all the codes correct and, when I asked him why they'd taken so long, he said he finds them really dull. I've explained that he should see them as easy marks and have challenged him to get his time down. So, the other day I gave him some sections from the Walsh pink book and he did seven Type Ls in 8 mins.

I know you said that it is difficult to give expected timings as different publishers vary but, as we are about to start Susan Daughtrey, do you have a rough indication of what is a reasonable time for a section of Type L's in her papers?

In reply to your question about doing a session in between tests, some weeks we've fitted in one 11+ practice session, some weeks two & some none at all! And I've varied what we've done - sometimes giving him a timed paper, sometimes focussing on particular question types, sometimes working on maths or vocabulary.

My understanding from your posts is that your pupils have a taught session with you where you time sections and then would also be doing a timed paper at home each week. So, we probably need to step up the pace from now on and do the same!

For timed papers, I am planning to do the S.D. ones, then Learning Lab (VR2) by Madeline Guyon and then the Nfer last. I also have the Walsh pink and blue books to use for practising different question types.

Sorry this reply seems to have turned into a long one - thanks again!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:33 am 
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Dear Cassandra

Type L and C are time consuming and boring, but they are easy marks. My outer limit is 50 seconds for type L. I totally disapprove of looking on the answer sheet once finding the first letter, as most of the time there is more than one letter [therefore wasting time everytime they look over] and if there is only one letter that is appropriate, if they have made a mistake they have lost a precious mark. In fact one of children did this yesterday, I allowed her to fall into the trap, then once the section was over I took great pleasure in saying, "well if you had kept to my method and techniqes, you would have got that question right!" I do not recommend leaving whole sections out, they still have to be completed and if left the child panics with time ticking away and those dreaded codes are still to be attempted, causing unnecessary silly mistakes.

Session times should be varied covering most types each week, you could copy up some papers and have a race with him on a section of codes, [or any other type as warranted] reward with stickers if he can beat you. At first make sure you beat him then perhaps a little kidology, slow down so he does win.

I have to keep session time to 60 minutes however, with home tutoring you can vary with perhaps 2 x 30 or 4 x 15

I would reverse your order of testing, completing Learning lab before Susan Daughtrey. I like to complete tests in an order of suitability. Daughtrey are closer in look and difficulty to the real test. Nfer last simply because the child is practicing with exactly the same look, remember to practice HIKNOS during session time.

Patricia


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:29 am 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Patricia, you truly are the font of all 11+ knowledge! Will do Learning Lab next and then S.D.

Many thanks,

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:46 pm
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Hi Patricia,
Can I ask please - what is HIKNOS?
Many thanks


Last edited by Brenda Jean on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:19 am
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Same question came up in this thread
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15979


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:38 pm
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Location: Maidstone
16 = H = Opposite meaning
17 = I = Complete the sum
18 = K = Related numbers
19 = N = Word-number codes
20 = O = Complete the word
21 = S = Same meaning

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:46 pm
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Thanks Sherry_d and Chicko-mum
Do you happen to know if these are needed for Kent or Bexley?

Many thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:38 pm
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Location: Maidstone
You dont need HIKNOS in Kent. Dont know about Bexley.

If you are using NFER papers they dont have HIKNOS so they are fine for Kent.

Susan Daughtrey papers have HIKNOS so for Kent you may just skip those sections.

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