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 Post subject: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:04 am
Posts: 455
I was given some information months ago by a mum from school whos dc got into gs which I have just looked at. I thought we were doing ok on the test papers,vocab stuff etc and then I opened this revision paper. It says 8-12 mins, after about an hour I gave in and conceded defeat on 2 of the questions!
example (3(12)4) (7(35)5) (9(___)12) ans 18
1:(21(30)1) (20(11)10) (16(___)2) ans17
2: (6(100)18) (5(132)28) (4(___)21) ans 76
Please can someone help with these 2 questions as I cant see how they got the answers :? . Also need calming down as I am now worried if they are like this in the test!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:37 pm 
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1: (21(30)1) (20(11)10) (16(___)2) ans17

21 divided by 1 = 21
How do you get to 30 = + 9

20 divided by 10 = 2
How do you get to 11 = + 9

16 divided by 2 = 8
8 + 9 = 17


2: (6(100)18) (5(132)28) (4(___)21) ans 76

6 x 18 = 108
How do you get to 100 = subtract 8

5 x 28 = 140
How do you get to 132 = subtract 8

4 x 21 = 84
subtract 8 = 76

I think the answer to your example should be 108, just multiplying the outer numbers.

What do you mean by 8 - 12 minutes?

This type are the most difficult of the maths questions for the children to learn, but once the method and technique kicks in, they are relatively easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:53 pm 
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At the start of my tuition, I always write 'helpful' notes next to each type within the test that is left for homework. For type K bracket maths, I write the following:

Middle number has been made using the numbers either side.
Same rule must apply for all 3 sets.
Sometimes 1 operation. Sometimes 2.
Second operation can be:

1] + - x / [divide sign!] the same number.
2] doubling/halving
3] + - x / [divide sign] the number on the left or right of the middle number.

Whilst teaching, I always say:

If the number in the middle is bigger than the 2 either side then your 1st operation is probably adding or multiplying.

If the number in the middle is smaller that at least one of the numbers either side, then your 1st operation is probably subtracting or dividing.

I always emphasise the word probably, because there are times when this rule will not work, they are not to panic, if it doesn't work, thats fine, just try the other 2 operations.

Patricia


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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:04 am
Posts: 455
Thanks Patricia, I couldnt see the answers at all! There were 15 questions in 8-12 mins, I got the rest just not those 2(I think my maths was flawed! :oops: ),these were new and I like to look at new things before I give them to ds1 so that they dont knock his confidence. Now I know they are ok to use the poor soul will get these soon. I suspect he will be a lot quicker than me as he has had similar questions that seemed a lot easier, probably because I was being obtuse.
Many thanks for calming this neurotic mum. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:52 pm 
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This one has me stumped:

11 (13) 5 9 (7) 6 13 (?) 7

answer is 13


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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:32 pm 
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11-5=6 double and add 1
9-6=3 double and add 1
13-7=6 double and add 1
I think!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:30 pm
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hi
I thought you are only allowed to use two operations max ,turtleglos you have used three operations!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:04 am
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I didnt know you could only use 2 operations! I just looked for a logical answer if its wrong I have no idea and will wait for someone clever(Patricia?) to give us the correct answer. :lol:
Wish I was better at this brain stuff!

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 Post subject: Re: Type 19 help!!!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:46 am 
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Turtleglos is quite right for this particular question, If I remember correctly it has come from one of the Walsh tests.

Some authors are using their own variations on this type. The 2 operations is correct, so if an author uses a variation I do not count it as a silly mistake if the child gives the wrong answer.

Patricia


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