VR - LETTER SEQUENCES

Advice on 11 Plus VR papers and problems

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patricia
Posts: 2803
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:07 pm

Post by patricia »

Dear Blessed

No need to say sorry, we all make mistakes, thats what makes us human

I had to look at it several times saying the alphabet out loud, thought I was going a bit loopy!

Patricia
Guest

Re: hello

Post by Guest »

nop i still can't work it out patricia please help :roll:
nishant
nisahnt wrote:hi patricia last month i got lot of advice from you regarding diy for 11+ and i am very happy to let you know that my son is really enjoying all this and he is already scoring between 75-88% (based on 8-10 papers)i hope by sep/ oct he should be alright. he manages to finish his test just within time(strictly 50 minutes). i know you might think i am pushing him to hard by giving him test papers already but believe me its him who ask me to give him tests. yeap he is reading about 2-3 times at home and note down new words+ your list of words +cd ect. and good part is he is not feeling any pressure. i hope he will feel same towards the end as well. ok this time we are stuck on one question it might be very easy but we can't solve it.
code for FOILED is ULROVW
code for CHAFF is ?
answer is XSZUU
its from Tutor Test 2
Guest

Post by Guest »

These used to catch my son out (and me!) as they don’t follow the usual rule of these codes. I’ll try and explain….

FOILED --- ULROVW
Starting with F
F is the 6th letter in of the alphabet from the beginning, starting at A.
U is the 6th letter counting back in the alphabet, starting at Z

You can do the same thing all the way to check …

F = 6th letter in from A U = 6th letter back from Z
O = 15th letter in from A L = 15th letter back from Z
I = 9th letter in from A R = 9th letter back from Z
L = 12th letter in from A O = 12th letter back from Z
E = 5th letter in from A W = 5th letter back from Z


So now for the new word

C = 3rd letter in from A
So letter for the code is 3rd letter starting at Z = X

Do the same thing all the way through the word

C = 3rd letter in from A X = 3rd letter back from Z
H = 8th letter in from A S = 8th letter back from Z
A = 1st letter Z = 1st letter
F = 6th letter in from A U = 6th letter in back from Z
The 2nd F is then just repeated.

So the new code is XSZUU

Hope that makes sense!
Guest

Post by Guest »

Sorry I sent that before checking thoroughly and made an error on the first bit – but the principle is still the same. (should check my work!)

F = 6th letter in from A U = 6th letter back from Z
O = 15th letter in from A L = 15th letter back from Z
I = 9th letter in from A R = 9th letter back from Z
L = 12th letter in from A O = 12th letter back from Z
E = 5th letter in from A V = 5th letter back from Z
D = 4th letter in from A W = 4th letter back from Z
Geoffrey

Post by Geoffrey »

Looking at the last discussion here about codes, I can't help reminding myself that NFER claim that this type of question is testing the innate intelligence of a child and that coaching makes only a marginal difference.

Plenty of intelligent adults (myself included) seem to have a problem seeing the answer to this kind of question without explanation. So in theory either only a very few gifted 10-year-old children are supposed to be able to work out this type of code unseen, or NFER are kidding themselves!

Geoffrey
Guest

Post by Guest »

This is the type of code question where you need to split the alphabet down the middle with a mirror! Therefore looking at it as though it is a mirror image!
loulou
Posts: 445
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:05 am
Location: LONDON

Post by loulou »

So in theory either only a very few gifted 10-year-old children are supposed to be able to work out this type of code unseen, or NFER are kidding themselves!
I disagree. As a 10 year old its exactly the sort of question I would have thrived on and the same goes for my 10 year old son (without 'coaching' in both cases). I think its one of those questions you either find easy (as you can immediately see the answer to it) or you struggle with. I also know that there are other questions that I would have struggled with as a 10 year old and would still struggle with today unless I was pointed in the right direction. I think it just depends upon the way your mind works.
sj355
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:07 pm
Location: Finchley - Barnet

Post by sj355 »

My son was just passing by and after looking at it he found it in about 5 secs :idea: ! But, as he says, these things you either see them here and now, or you will struggle for it for hours :shock: . This can happen to the same child (hopefully not on the day of an exam :oops: !).

INEX

I disagree. As a 10 year old its exactly the sort of question I would have thrived on and the same goes for my 10 year old son (without 'coaching' in both cases). I think its one of those questions you either find easy (as you can immediately see the answer to it) or you struggle with. I also know that there are other questions that I would have struggled with as a 10 year old and would still struggle with today unless I was pointed in the right direction. I think it just depends upon the way your mind works.[/quote]
sj355
Guest

struggle

Post by Guest »

thanx to everybody for replying. unfortunately me and my son both are in the category of those ones (only for this one yet) who really struggled and at the end you guy solved and explained it so well. all help is very much appreciated as we have learnt one more (possibility) way to tackle with these type of ouestion. yes you are right it all depends how your brain picks up. i have heard from many parents that their kids find reading information type very difficult and they are not even trying to attemp those questions yet at all but believe me my son just needs to read those ones just ones and he has always answered those ones right and it is just the time he takes to read the question and know the answer straight away even i don't dare look at those type questions. but the above one he just couldn't solve (all i can say i have to give him benefit of doubt that he might be thinking about his war hammer stuff while trying to solve it ). anyways thanks to everyone for response. just last fear (although he should be ok) is there fair chance of getting this type of questions in real exams?
nishant
patricia
Posts: 2803
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:07 pm

Post by patricia »

Dear All

I tend to agree with Geoffrey. Nfer state that the only practice required is the familiarisation and practice tests. The Familiarisation [ BUCKS] do NOT contain the codes that come in from the ends, just the standard ones. NFER shop bought tests DO contain codes coming in from the ends.

So a child keeping to NFER rules would have never been taught this code, I believe the Majority of children would not 'see' the technique, unless they have already been tutored [DIY/Private tuition] These children would be working under pressure with a strict time limit, they would work out the code as normal, not be able find the answer, would then either..

1] panic
2] spend too much time trying to work it out [again panic would set in]
3] leave it out [probably the best scenario]....but technicaly leaving out a dead cert mark, if the child had been taught how to do it.

I firmly believe there are a lot of children out there that could answer these questions [and other types] without prior coaching, and yes would thrive on them [myself probably included] but give them a time limit of ..

1] looking at the question
2]working out the technique
3] then answering it

ALL in 30 seconds or so....no.

Give a child strict time limits, no prior coaching, DIY/Private most would NOT make the grade.

When I commence tutoring a child, for every type I ask them to read the instructions out loud to me, then say to them 'So, what does that mean?'
I have yet to find a child that looked at any code [either type] and knew what to do instinctively. Yes, with time ticking away some would, but there is no time to 'think' in the 'real' test.

Patricia
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