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 Post subject: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:10 am

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:35 am
Posts: 75
Hi
I thought I would go through some harder ones with my DD but can't work out the answer to the very first type I've tried!

Is there a problem with the q paper or is it me?

Q. 62 Paper 1 Book 1 Complete the 3rd pair in the same way

(tracker rack) ( feared dear) ( locked [?] )

I get 2 different answers for when I use each set of words:

tracker/ rack gives me 2/7 3 4 5 which is OCKE (not a word obviously)

feared / dear gives me 6 2/5 3 4 which gives the words DECK or DOCK (both are on the answer paper)

The answer given as correct by Walsh is DOCK

Can anyone help explain where I am going wrong? Many thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:15 am

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:02 pm
Posts: 420
nearly there wrote:
(tracker rack) ( feared dear) ( locked [?] )

counting backwards,

tracker to rack is 1/6,5,4,3
feared to dear is 1,5,4,3

so using 1,5,4,3

locked is dock

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:34 am

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:35 am
Posts: 75
Thanks 999 mum! It never occurred to me to try counting backwards.

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:53 am

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:14 pm
Posts: 31
It is also taking the last letter, and placing it in front of the first vowel and next 2 letters to make a new word, isn't it? could that be a way of solving it, or am I oversimplifying?

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:12 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:35 am
Posts: 75
Ah yes, I see what you mean.

I'm not sure how I should teach this type of question to DD now!

When should I advise DD to write out letter positions and when just to try to manipulate the letters in her head?

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:17 pm

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:14 pm
Posts: 31
Not sure if 'my way' would be one that would appear on a VR paper, it was just the way it leapt out at me. Maybe one of the moderators could jump in and explain??

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:46 pm

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8203
Location: Buckinghamshire
I remember this question vividly! TBH I think it is not that well written. I don't think I would object so much if the option of "DECK" wasn't on the answer sheet, because then it would be a matter of simply finding a real word from the second set, but with both DECK and DOCK there it becomes excessively complicated.

I don't recall any other examples that worked the same way (Patricia may correct me) so I really wouldn't alter the method of solving at this stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:07 pm

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
These questions are either answered by using the "where does the letter come from" starting from the beginning of the word, or are "patterns" involving manipulation of the letters given or taking /adding letters. This is the latter...

tr....ack....er........... rack

f....ear....ed.............dear

l...ock...ed

Take the letters away at the start of the word [that are in front of the vowel]
Take away the 2 letters at the end of the word.
I get my children to strike a line through them.

Now add the last letter to the front of the word.

rack er

dear ed

dock ed

There are various patterns used ....

1] Taking note of vowels then adding/taking away letters as above.

2] Changing the vowels from A to E from E to I then I to O. TALL to TELL, then BELL to BILL

3] Changing a letter in a particular position. VEST to WEST [1st letter one up in th alphabet]

4] Changing a specific letter but may be in different positions within the word eg WEAR to WEIR then RATE to RITE

5] The last letter of the first word is used as an additional letter in the second word. BOX is to BOXY The last letter is X one up in the alphabet is Y add it to BOX to Make BOXY.

6] Manipulating the letters given. Working from the "where does the letter come from" does not work. ARREST is to STAR and STATE is to TEST in this instance they have taken the last 2 letters and made into the 1st 2 letters, then taken the 1st 2 letters and put them at the end.

ARREST/ STAR .
STATE/ TEST

Patricia

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:14 am

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:35 am
Posts: 75
Many thanks everyone, especially Patricia for sharing her methods- this makes perfect sense now.

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 Post subject: Re: Walsh VR 1 Paper 1 Q. 62Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:16 am

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8203
Location: Buckinghamshire
I am afraid that I still feel that this particular question is too ambiguous. While Patricia's explanation works, it really only works with the benefit of hindsight, i.e. knowing the correct answer and working back from there.

The idea of removing a variable number of letters before the vowel or before a particular sequence is completely a matter of trial, error and guesswork, rather than there being a pattern that can be logically deduced from the three sets of words.

I have often wondered if the question actually contains a typing error in the first set. If the first word was "hacker" (or even "backer" or "packer") it would make perfect sense. Set one would provide the answer "dock", set two would provide either "deck" or "dock" and there would be no ambiguity.

As the remaining Walsh papers feature some very clever examples of the other variations Patricia mentions, this one sticks out like a sore thumb for me.

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