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 Post subject: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:41 am
Posts: 24
Just wondering what other people's opinions are on these new papers?

Are the introductory ones suitable for current Y4 pupils?

Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 625
Hi Jayne

We think that the papers are suitable as introductory papers if the student is aware of the question types and how to complete them. There does not appear to be a great difference in the difficulty levels of the questions between the introductory and standard sets of questions.

Regards

Mike

_________________
Mike Edwards is a co-author of The Tutors product range.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Posts: 191
I have found them to be good practice and feel the introductory papers are good for late y4/early y5. I think it's good to go through the IPS method and technique book first though so your child knows how to tackle the different question types. The Madeline Guyon books mirror the IPS/NFER format and are ideal practice. My son found the later red book (Book 2) quite challenging. More challenging than NFER but easier than Walsh!


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 Post subject: Re: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:34 pm
Posts: 548
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Are these papers introductory only? Book 1 (green) and Book 2 (red). I was told by someone that they are Walsh standard?


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 Post subject: Re: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8199
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Sara

I don't feel that they are Walsh standard, although there are some tricky questions in places.

Overall I would rank them as slightly less difficult than Susan Daughtrey Bright Sparks.

Just my opinion though!

(However did you dig up this ancient thread?! :lol: )

S-A


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 Post subject: Re: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:34 pm
Posts: 548
LOL! I searched for Madeline Guyon, thats how! :wink:

Its so funny how the 11+ rumours differ so. I had these papers thrusted to me two years ago, a woman emphatically stating 'THESE are the papers you need to get in to Tiffin!' I thus thought they would be mega hard.

If these papers are less difficult than S.D's papers, then cor blimey, Tiffin's paper must be a breeze! :roll: And then you have the likes of Stephen Curran who said he's seen the papers that NFER set, and they are all from the same selection (as in each school doesnt have their own papers written for them) , including the Tiffin ones..... and each year, each school just chooses different ones from a universal approved selection. Makes sense... but urban legends stop one from believing it.

These rumours should go on snopes.com :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:34 pm
Posts: 548
Type 3 C Word Letter Codes
eg
TRAP = USBQ what does DPME mean?

Can the kind folks out there please look at this question in the Learning Labs (Madeline Guyon) Paper 2

Q 77
If NMOIFW is the code for MONKEY
What is the code for ZEBRA?


How different can the wording of the question be?

The questions have been worded in all sorts of different ways:
If the code for GLAD is ABCD what does HGYF mean? (I thought this was standard?)
If the code for GLAD is ABCD what is the code for SPAM? (I thought this was standard?)
If the word GLAD in code is ABCD, what does HGYF mean?
If GLAD in code is ABCD what is the code for SPAM?
If ABCD is the code for GLAD what is the code for SPAM?

- should we expect all sorts of different ways of the wording of the question, and thus all sorts of different ways we work out the answer? Is there a method to this?

How 'sneaky' can the answers be?

We worked it out Q77 the wrong way, we worked out ZEBRA = YGATZ - which was a possible answer - isn't that unfair? We actually worked out the first few letters, and assumed that YGATZ as the correct answer, marked it, and moved on.... How misleading.
But we were supposed to work backward, and the correct answer would have been ACCPB.


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 Post subject: Re: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Yes the format can change.

Thats why the children always need to keep to a rule, so they know which way they are moving.

My children keep to the rule "whatever you are looking for goes on the bottom" they seem to like the word "bottom"

I will dig out and old post later this evening to explain the rule.

Patricia


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 Post subject: Re: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:34 pm
Posts: 548
Patricia wrote:
I will dig out and old post later this evening to explain the rule.


Thanks Patricia, I'd really appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Madeline Guyon
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D


:: You need to find a WORD or a CODE.

:: You need to learn a rule and keep to it as differnet publishers use different layouts, sometimes they are different within the same section.

“Whatever you are looking for goes on the bottom.”

:: If you are looking for a WORD the WORD goes on the BOTTOM.
:: If you are looking for a CODE the CODE goes on the BOTTOM.

The word to remember is BOTTOM.

Example 1

If the code for LUCK is JSAI
What does EMMB mean?


:: Ignore the first line; go straight to the second line as you need to find out WHAT you are looking for, in this case, a WORD

::You are looking for a WORD so the WORD goes on the BOTTOM

...................J SAI
If the code for LUCK is JSAI
What does EMMB mean?

::Now work in a downwards fashion.

:: How do you get from J to L = +2 apply to the 1st letter of the code in the second line E +2 = G
:: How do you get from S to U = +2, apply to 2nd letter of the code in the second line M +2 = O
:: How do you get from A to C = +2, apply to 3rd letter of the code in the second line M +2 = O
:: How do you get from I to K = +2, apply to 4th letter of the code in the second line B +2 = D
:: This produces the word GOOD; mark it on the answer sheet.

:: YOU ONLY NEED TO WRITE THE LETTERS DOWN; THE REST IS SAID SILENTLY IN YOUR HEAD.

:: It is VERY important to keep to the same rule, if not you WILL get the wrong answer.

Example 2


W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D

If the code QBLE means SAND
What is the code for MOST?

“Whatever you are looking for goes on the bottom”

:: If you are looking for a WORD the WORD goes on the BOTTOM.
:: If you are looking for a CODE the CODE goes on the BOTTOM.


:: Ignore the first line; go straight to the second line as you need to find out WHAT you are looking for, in this case, a code.
:: You are looking for a CODE so the CODE goes on the BOTTOM

................SAND
If the code QBLE means SAND
What is the code for MOST?

:: Now work in a downwards fashion.

:: How do you get from S to Q = - 2 apply to the 1st letter of the word in the second line M - 2 = K
:: How do you get from A to B = + 1, apply to 2nd letter of the word in the second line O + 1 = P
:: How do you get from N to L = - 2, apply to 3rd letter of the word in the second line S - 2 = Q
:: How do you get from D to E = + 1, apply to 4th letter of the word in the second line T + 1 = U
:: This produces the code KPQU; mark it on the answer sheet.

:: YOU ONLY NEED TO WRITE THE LETTERS DOWN; THE REST IS SAID SILENTLY IN YOUR HEAD.

Short Cuts

Once you have mastered this technique you can start using a variety of time saving methods, I will show you two such methods:

Method 1

Work out the first 3 letters only, then check the multiple choice answer sheet, most of the time these first three letters will be enough to find the answers from the options given. Sometimes you may need to find the next letter. Do not bother looking after one or two letters it is very rare that you will find the answer and therefore you will be wasting precious time by constantly checking.

Method 2

Work out the first and last letters only then check the multiple choice answer sheet, most of the time these first and last letters will be enough to find the answers from the options given. Sometimes you may need to find one more letter.
e.g. B______E
Answer sheet shows BARGE and BADGE , you will need to find the 3rd letter.

Patricia


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