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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:41 pm 
Can anyone please tell me what (approximately) is the percentage expected to pass for the girls Grammar School in Stratford on Avon? Some people say 100% others say just somewhere in the 90s. My child is currently achieving scores of 93/94% in the Secondary Selection Portfolio Verbal Reasoning papers (pack 2) prepared by Athey Educational.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:05 pm 
I know people whose children have sat the test for Stratford and Alcester grammar school, but my child didn't actually sit the test.

They use Moray House but I don't think that there are any practise papers for them. Does your school help in anyway, because I think many in Warwickshire do by giving practise papers in school, etc. Try the NFER VR papers - they are quite difficult and if the child can get over 90% they are doing well. Don't the children also have to write a story/article? How about asking at your school if you live in Warks?

When I prepared my 2 children, I always set 90% as a bench mark and if they were getting over this level, then I was happy. They both got into grammar school in Birmingham.

Good luck!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:13 pm 
Thanks Ke Mum for your suggestions. I have looked into this already in quite a lot of detail and the papers that I'm using are the one's I've been advised to use. You're right they do use Moray House and they do have to write a story/article but it is only marked in a tye break situation as such (if for instance they have filled a majority of the places then there is a large percentage that receive the same mark for the few places that are left). Although I have been able to find out most other things I need to know, nobody seems to know what percentage I should use as a bench mark - everybody says something different! Alot of areas seem to use the Nfer papers and also seem to know that if their child is achieving a certain mark in the practise papers that they are at least on target! I would just like to know whether my daughter achieving 93/94% on these practise papers is good enough or should we be aiming higher?

Thanks once again Ke mum for your input - it's nice to have a reply at least!


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 Post subject: Stratford Grammar Scores
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Birmingham
Hi Lucky

As mentioned elsewhere in the forum, the pass score will be dependant on a number of factors; the principle ones being the typical candidate/place ratio and who sets the tests.

You can probably get a fair idea of the typical pass scores by looking at the local authority or school exam stats.

Typically you might expect a standardised score of about 118 iwhich is normally the lowest pass level (ie the standardised score of the last child to gain entry) - but this does vary around the country depending on demand. I understand some areas like Bucks set higher levels for out of area applicants, or others may be heavily oversubscribed which increases the pass level. A score of 118 is about the 86 percentile score.

For the NFER tests we have often been told that this equates to about 86%, but there are a lot of candidates at about this level and the standardisaton age adjustment can often have a big effect. (as much as 7%-8% swing in some cases). I think children scoring consistently at 90% plus in properly timed and controlled NFER tests should give you confidence - IF they can perform to that level in the pressure of the real test.

I'm not sure if others on the forum agree with me, but I have always found the Athey papers to be slightly easier than the NFER. So 94-95% on Athey sounds ok.

You might want to try asking the Warwickshire LEA for the actual exam standardised scores for prevous years under the Freedom of Information Act. Some have been successful . Worth a try.

Hope this helps.

Ken


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:02 pm 
Thanks Ken for your very detailed response - the information is very helpful.

I do have some nfer practise papers which are 85 questions in 50 mins and are multiple choice (does this sound like the right thing?), they are a very different format though, does this matter?

Thanks again.

Lucky


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:46 pm 
Hi

I know that a friend of mine whose son got into the school in Stratford used Bond and NFER (because she borrowed them off me!). However, she could have used some other material, I am not sure. She also had a tutor for him for the last 6 months before he sat the test. They need to be able to write the story quite quickly, I think, and his tutor used to give him timed practise to do as homework.

I think these Moray House tests are a bit of a mystery. I don't think my friend's son was getting 100% in tests (in fact, I know he wasn't). I would just give him as much practise as possible of different types of VR. It all helps to widen vocabulary, together with reading as many books as poss.

Hope you are successful.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:49 pm 
Sorry - should have read your post more thoroughly - I refered to your son and "he" should have been a daughter!

Have you looked at the link on the other thread for Moray House? Looks useful.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear Ken R

Just to set the records straight, Bucks do not differentiate between children that live in or out of county. Bucks pass mark is 121.....the 'odd' thing about Bucks is that in the standardisation process we do not have an average of 100, its 112....but thats another story!

With regard to Athey, yes I believe them to be slightly easier [ not that I use them, as they do not replicate NFER/Bucks tests ]

Patricia


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 Post subject: VR Pass Scores
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Birmingham
Hi Patricia,

Thanks for the correction on the Bucks Pass Scores. I recall reading somewhere in the forum that some LEAs differentiate the pass scores between in and out of area candidates. My memory is clearly not what it used to be - good job I don't have to take the 11+ exams myself!

Interesting information about the Bucks average not being 100 but 112. How do they do the scoring and process then? The standardisation method is a statistically and mathematically rigorous process. It's a bit like someone suddenly deciding that the median is not longer the 50th percentile but the 60th! There as to be a clear mechanism for equating the a standardised score to the percentile of candidates taking the test.

It's interesting that for Birmingham KE schools the pass mark is around an average of 116 (x3 for VR, NVR & Maths) to give a total around 348. I also understand that the pass scores didn't change dramatically when they switched from NFER to Univ of Durham exams.

A pass score of 121, if its a true statistical figure, is pretty high - there must be a lot of very bright kids that don't make it into the grammar school system in Bucks. Just shows what a lottery the whole process is throughout the country.

Ken


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:48 am 
Dear KenR,

For your information there is a girl's and a boy's school in North West London that set the bar at 132, last year due to the quality of (heavily tutored) applicants last year.


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