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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Looks like Sutton Grammar are introducing changes to their admission criteria. Although the draft hasn't been published yet, the FAQs talk about a two stage test on two separate days. First test decides suitability for selective education and the second test is for ranking purposes :shock: .

I know some schools in other boroughs have two stage testing - e.g. HBS and QE but have no personal experience of it.

Anyone got any idea why they might be changing? Will be interesting to see whether they're changing the content of the tests as well. Just when I thought I knew roughly what DS should be practising as well :(


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Location: Sutton
It's a change to procedure rather than policy. Our oversubscription criteria will remain the same.

The new Admissions Code, which comes into force on the 1st February, requires us to issue results of selective testing before the CAF is due, hence the change of procedure.

The suitability test will be broadly similar to our current multiple choice elements, and will consist of two papers, English (spelling, grammar comprehension) and Reasoning (mostly VR, but with some NVR and maths). These papers will be multiple choice.

Admissions criteria will be posted very soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Thanks Admissionlady,

So does that mean that the 'test for selective suitability' is the one that will contain VR with some NVR and maths and then the second exam, should boys get through, are the maths and English elements?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Yes, though we haven't absolutely decided on the content of the second stage yet - but that is the most likely.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Thanks very much for your reply. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Would this mean that by CAF date, one would only know the suitablity with final round still to take place?

Don't think this would be much helpful about making the choices. I had thought that under the new admission codes, some more definite result (score and/or rank) would be given before CAF admission. Or am I getting it wrong?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:20 pm 
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I think the outcome would be the same as currently applies for Wallington and Wilsons - i.e. you are told that you are of selective ability before the CAF goes in but you don't know your ranked place and so have no idea of whether you are likely to get a place or not.

I think it only makes a difference if you are told that you passed the test and what score you actually got e.g. as at Nonsuch. You can then use past years as a guide as to whether you are likely to get a place on 01 March.

At least the new format at Sutton should mean that you know whether it's worth putting the school down on the CAF or not. You won't be anymore in the dark than you currently are if you sit the tests at Wilsons or Wallington. Of course it would be great to know your actual score but it does seem that schools are moving away from that to avoid comparisons when children actually start at the school.

Of course the changes mean that NVR is on the menu now whereas it wouldn't have been previously (unless of course you were also going to sit Tiffins :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:03 pm 
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What is then the point in bringing forward the tests, if we will still be in as much dark as at now?
At the least the score, if not the rank, needs to given to make any reasonable idea about likelyhood of getting the place.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:05 pm 
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It's the law!

Section 1.32 paragraph(c) states that Admission authorities must

"take all reasonable steps to inform parents of the outcome of selection tests before the closing date for secondary applications on 31 October so as to allow parents time to make an informed choice of school-while making it clear that this does not equate to the offer of a place."

But surely outcome means score and/or rank, I hear you cry?

Section 2.10 states that
".........Admission authorities [SGS is its own admissions authority] must not provide any guarantees to applicants of the outcome of their application prior to the formal notification of any offers of a place in a suitable school by the home local authority."

Giving a rank or score, especially if it is a high one, could be tantamount to providing a guarantee.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:02 pm 
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admissionslady wrote:
It's the law!

Section 1.32 paragraph(c) states that Admission authorities must

"take all reasonable steps to inform parents of the outcome of selection tests before the closing date for secondary applications on 31 October so as to allow parents time to make an informed choice of school-while making it clear that this does not equate to the offer of a place."

But surely outcome means score and/or rank, I hear you cry?

Section 2.10 states that
".........Admission authorities [SGS is its own admissions authority] must not provide any guarantees to applicants of the outcome of their application prior to the formal notification of any offers of a place in a suitable school by the home local authority."

Giving a rank or score, especially if it is a high one, could be tantamount to providing a guarantee.



Well, let's agree to disagree.

Apparently, it is not against the law to give score or rank (other schools give score too). How else would parents make 'informed choice'?

Also giving score or rank does not mean guaranteeing the place. Actually, Schools are 'required' to clearly state that these results are not offer of place - that the offer will be made by LA.

With due respect, it appears to me that some schools like to keep the details to themselves for as long as possible, for whatever reason.


Last edited by tiffinboys on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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