All change at Sutton Grammar - 2013 entry

[999 mum]

With due respect, it appears to me that some schools like to keep the details to themselves as long as possible, for whatever reason.

My DS is in year 7, pupils who are offered places do not know their scores and so cannot rank themselves among the class. I think that is a great idea.

[tiffinboys]

With due respect, it appears to me that some schools like to keep the details to themselves as long as possible, for whatever reason.

My DS is in year 7, pupils who are offered places do not know their scores and so cannot rank themselves among the class. I think that is a great idea.

Yes, that may be one reason. However, how one would make an informed choice by just knowing that your child has moved to round 2 and is among the 700 or so children.
Really baffling. That kind of information would just defeat the purpose of this part of the admission code. Let us just say that we would be in as much dark as at present.

[mynameisbond]

Admissions lady - please is there any way you can give out basic information re the Sutton Test. Those who passed were only told they had passed. In letters from Wilsons and Wallington boys were told how many took the test and how many passed, and were still told that passing did not guarantee a place.

I am confused as to why Sutton isn't giving the same information.......I really don't understand

[suttonmum]

Please please please can you leave out the nvr. Yet more books to buy, stuff to practise and another money making scheme for the tutors. A retrograde step I think.

[admissionslady]

Hi Bond

You'll get all that information after offers have been made (but you won't get scores if your son has been made an offer of a place)

Bear in mind that Wallington and Wilsons issued that information before the CAF was due ie before applications had been made.

[tiffinboys]

Admissions lady - please is there any way you can give out basic information re the Sutton Test. Those who passed were only told they had passed. In letters from Wilsons and Wallington boys were told how many took the test and how many passed, and were still told that passing did not guarantee a place.

I am confused as to why Sutton isn't giving the same information.......I really don't understand

Supposing they say that 1400 took the test and 360 passed the test. How is that going to help in knowing where one stands until 1st March (National Offer Day). That is why score (ideally, rank as well) is important to make any intelligent guess. Good Luck to all children who are waiting for the offers.

[handsondad]

As far as I'm aware Wallington haven't disclosed how many children sat the exam and passed. I called to enquire a few months back but they wouldn't disclose.

However I totally agree with tiffinboys, there needs to be more clarity with regards to results. What baffles me is the fact that different grammar schools in the same borough seem to have different rules.

[tiffinboys]

What baffles me is the fact that different grammar schools in the same borough seem to have different rules.

"It's the law" as some might say.

Another development is that Sutton Grammar is moving towards 2 rounds admission tests, increasing the testing cost/admin. burden for the school and pressure for the children and their parents. Many other schools which used to have 2 rounds tests are, on the other hand, moving to one day test (HBS & QE, for example).

Also the other schools are scheduling ALL their tests in September or very early October to give final results before CAF deadline - not of just round one.

[London_Mum]

The other boys' schools do not give final results. They merely tell parents whether their son is deemed to be of selective ability. This means the parent is free to list the school as one of their preferences but far more pass than can be offerd a place. The schools that currently test early give absolutely no further indication of likely outcomes so it is quite impossible for parents to guess whether they will receive an offer.

And in fact, this doesn't matter. The equal preference system is designed for exactly this reason. If, hypothetically, you were told your son came 5th in the Tiffins’ test and 378th in the Wilson's test but Wilson's was your first choice, you gain nothing by knowing your rankings. You would still put Wilsons at number 1 on the form and Tiffins at number 2. That way if you just miss the cut-off at Wilson's, your Tiffin's place is 100% guaranteed. And that would be the case whether you knew the rankings or not.

Knowing your ranking should have zero bearing on how you fill out the form. The only information you need is pass or fail so that you don’t waste the chance to add an extra back-up school should one of the Grammars cease to be an option.

If we had a system where your order of preference was determined by your likelihood of gaining a place then rankings would be crucial. In the example above a boy holding out for a place at Wilsons would jeopardise his place at Tiffins by having named it second instead of first. But that isn’t how the system works thankfully. With 6 choices, and knowing in advance which Grammars are a possibility, there is plenty of scope to ensure that you express your true preferences and have some back-up, non Grammars listed too.

[tiffinboys]

The other boys' schools do not give final results. They merely tell parents whether their son is deemed to be of selective ability. [ This is what the new admission code meant to change ] This means the parent is free to list the school as one of their preferences but far more pass than can be offerd a place. The schools that currently test early give absolutely no further indication of likely outcomes so it is quite impossible for parents to guess whether they will receive an offer.

And in fact, this doesn't matter. The equal preference system is designed for exactly this reason. If, hypothetically, you were told your son came 5th in the Tiffins’ test and 378th in the Wilson's test but Wilson's was your first choice, you gain nothing by knowing your rankings. You would still put Wilsons at number 1 on the form and Tiffins at number 2. That way if you just miss the cut-off at Wilson's, your Tiffin's place is 100% guaranteed. And that would be the case whether you knew the rankings or not.

Knowing your ranking should have zero bearing on how you fill out the form. The only information you need is pass or fail so that you don’t waste the chance to add an extra back-up school should one of the Grammars cease to be an option.

If we had a system where your order of preference was determined by your likelihood of gaining a place then rankings would be crucial. In the example above a boy holding out for a place at Wilsons would jeopardise his place at Tiffins by having named it second instead of first. But that isn’t how the system works thankfully. With 6 choices, and knowing in advance which Grammars are a possibility, there is plenty of scope to ensure that you express your true preferences and have some back-up, non Grammars listed too.

Perhaps this was an argument against making 'informed choices'.