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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:34 pm
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Hello

My son got shortlisted for second stage test that is in Saturday 17 November.

See below the message that we received from admission team:

"I am pleased to inform you that your son is invited to the second stage of our entrance test. 1540 boys sat the eligibility test on 6 October 2012 and 568 are being invited back for second stage testing. Your son has done very well on the first stage test and this shows that he in the ability range for you to make applications to selective schools. We hope that you will consider Sutton Grammar School as one of your chosen schools but please note that moving to this second stage does not give any guarantee of an offer of a place from our rank order"

Allocated seats are only 120? but they shortlised around 568. So, What are the chances for my son to secure a place in sutton? or is it possible to choose this school as 1st preference in Common Application from?

Please suggest me?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Places are 120 but many boys will have sat more than one test, and however well they do they cannot take more than one place. The results are surprisingly consistent, so a child that comes near the top on one school will generally be so in other schools. In reality this means that although they only have 120 places they need to go down the list quite a way to fill all their places. I would guess that if you are in the upper half of the 568 after the second test then you have a reasonable liklihood of getting a place.

On the CAF form you should put down all the schools you are considering IN YOUR OWN ORDER OF PREFERENCE.

If SGS would be your first choice then put it as first choice. If there is another school which you would prefer put that above SGS. There is no game to be played here and no tactics other than that you need to make sure you put your schools down in the order you want them. The schools have no idea and your son will get the school that accepts him that is the highest on your list. He may only get into 1, or he may get into several. If he gets into several you will be given your highest ranking preference.


Last edited by ThreeKids on Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:44 am
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568 boys have passed the test but there are only 120 places available. The second stage of testing is designed to whittle down the numbers even further since, at the moment, there are 568 boys bright enough to go to Sutton Grammar but the school doesn't have room to take them all (it is oversubscribed).

If your son scores very highly in the next test, he will be offered a place (provided you list Sutton Grammar on your form and no other school that you like better offers you a place) Putting it as your first choice does not increase your chances of getting an offer - offers go to the top scoring boys who haven't been offered a place at a higher ranked school or who have placed Sutton as their first choice. It is your son's score that matters though - the school does not know if they are your 1st choice, 3rd choice or 6th choice.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:28 pm
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You must put schools in true order of preference- you will get offered the highest ranking school where you have done well enough to get a place.

I reckon your son might need to get in top 400 to get a place. Out of that 400, maybe 220 may go to another local grammar ie Wilson's, Wallington or Tiffin; 40 may decide on an independent school or comp; 20 may be out of London sitting for practise (mad I know) and 120 will grab the place!

So it's very difficult to get in but perhaps not quite as impossible as you might first think. And well done to your son for getting this far anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Does anyone know whether the second test results will be added to the first to get the final mark, or is the ranking order purely based on stage 2 test result?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:43 pm 
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oak wrote:
Does anyone know whether the second test results will be added to the first to get the final mark, or is the ranking order purely based on stage 2 test result?

From what I read on the website the answer to that is yes. The first test will contribute 40% of the final score whilst the English and maths in the second part of the test will contribute 30% each to the end score - a total of 60%. So the second stage of the test is pretty important, but what they have done already will also be included.

Edited to correct that! It's not on the website it's in the email sent today:

Three standardised scores will be calculated using (1) all the multiple choice items from the eligibility tests, (2) the English paper in the second stage test and (3) the mathematics paper in the second stage test. The three standardised, age-adjusted scores will be weighted in the ratio 4:3:3 and rounded to the nearest four marks.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:00 pm
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Location: RBK
Was this ratio determined in time for valid Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:13 am 
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tiffinboys wrote:
Was this ratio determined in time for valid Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013?

No idea, but I very much doubt they will change it. The schools seem to twaek the tests annually. My question would be what is it that is wrong with the results of the previous tests which gives rise to this ever moving goal post. For sure the main change this year is due to new guidelines, but the goal posts have been continually moving for far longer than that.

I could hazard a guess - and that would be that they are attempting to devise a test that cannot be 'taught' so that they are better at identifying the gifted barely coached from the heavily coached bright child. They want more of the former and less of the later.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:24 am 
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tiffinboys wrote:
Was this ratio determined in time for valid Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013?


Just received the copy of Admissions Arrangements which Sutton Grammar determined in April 2012 (but not published on its website). To verify, concerned parents should ask School for the copy of the Determined Admission Arrangements they provided to the School Adjudicators.

Follwing sentences are additional to the Admissions Arangements which Sutton Grammar determined in April 2012.

'The total score of all the multiple choice items on the eligibility test will be standardised and adjusted for age. The raw scores from the first stage tests will be carried forward and combined with the scores from the second stage tests. Three standardised scores will be calculated using (1) all the multiple choice items from the eligibility tests, (2) the English paper in the second stage test and (3) the mathematics paper in the second stage test. The three standardised, age-adjusted scores will be weighted in the ratio 4:3:3 and rounded to the nearest four marks. In previous years this rounding has resulted in about 30-50 boys, from an entry of about 1500 boys, being on the same rounded score around the cut-off score. Boys on the same rounded score are ranked according to the distance criterion, with those living nearest the school being given priority.'


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:30 am 
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Location: RBK
Isn't this concept of rounding to the nearest 4 points to create an artificial gap between those who were successful and those who missed by a point?

Seems like this gap is being created to reduce the number of appeals. I am told there is more information available on this practice and am trying to get hold of it.


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