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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Of the 7 Surrey grammars, only 3 conducted late tests.

Were late tests necessary and 'required' or just choice of some schools?

As these were not in accordance with the Determined Admissions Arrangments, how would this impact admissions appeals?

My current 'understanding' is that these are not valid if schools were over-subscribed by the children who filled its SIF in accordance with the DAA. All late registrants would have to be considered, only if any place is available after eligible in-time applicants have been admitted.

What do you think, specially if from Education Law fraternity or involved in Admissions appeals?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:06 pm 
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IMHO I think this was a sensible move to cover a fair number of untested candidates that had listed the school(s) on their CAF and sent in supplementary forms for the October deadline.

From all the documentation I can see there was no obvious intention of a late test when the "Which Secondary School? 2013 booklet" was written... the booklet only mentions a July closing date for 'registration'. But if you look at the wording it is in fact very vague... the closing date for application and supplementary forms is October; there is no mention of a hard deadline for 'registration'. I think it would have been reasonable to demand a child be included in the process as long as the application and supplementary form had been filed by October.

I wonder why/when they decided on a later test? Maybe you should ask them.

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SVE

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:19 pm 
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1. If schools publish their DAA in April and gives a closing date for registration, then why would they suddenly announce in September about late tests and ask to put their school name on CAF?

Also Sutton Grammar never announced about the late test and suddenly decided to take late test late in November.

2. Parents who asked the school were told that late tests are to meet statutory requirement. But Sutton LA response suggest that this is not the case. Schools are taking late test as per their choice.

Even Sutton Grammar advised last week that 'Registering in time' was and will be the condition for admission. So why taking late tests?

3. If late tests were statutory requirement, then how come only 3 out of 7 are conducting these tests - not all?

To be quite honest, some thing is quite wrong.

The applicants who missed the place due to late entrants would have very good argument at admission appeals.


Last edited by tiffinboys on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:19 pm 
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May be some schools just don't want to miss any bright candidates at all??


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Then they should arrange for weekly tests. Why just one late go? :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:56 pm 
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tiffinboys wrote:
The applicants who missed the place due to late entrants would have very good argument at admission appeals.

I can't see that argument. If the tests are normalised then there is no advantage at all. There have always been multiple sittings for the tests due to illness etc.
In fact IMHO I think the reverse is true.... if a late (October CAF candidate) had been refused the test then they could appeal; the documentation seems pretty clear that October is a hard deadline.
Only my 2p worth
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SVE

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:33 pm 
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SVE, I see your point, but I am told that it is an established practice that if Schools are over-subscribed by the applicants who registered in time and named the school on CAF, then Schools can not give admission to late entrants in violation of school's DAA. None of the schools conducting late tests have mentioned allowing late tests in their DAA.

Also if late tests were necessary, all grammars would be conducting these late tests. Nonsuch and Wallington Girls have been taking the entrance tests in September in the previous years as well and had not needed to conduct late tests for those who did not register in time.

It is possible for in-time registrants to prove that they were pushed down the list by late-entrants and that in-time registrants should have been admitted before considering late entrants.

Second argument which could be made is that the late test were conducted in violation of DAA and are therefore null & void. Submitting SIF and CAF in time were admission requirement. Those who did not submit SIF in time, should not even be considered if school was over-subscribed.

I stand to be corrected. Perhaps some one involved in admissions appeals could through more light on this aspect.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Kendrick School, Reading is also conducting late test, but with a difference. Those who registered for the late tests, will be treated as late applicants and would be considered only after in-time applicants have been admitted.

Also the details of late tests and its consideration as late applicants are given in their DAA. Totally different from Surrey grammars.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:08 pm 
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But this is the first year of a new system... applicants could not have been expected to know about a deadline (which is not even explict in the guidance).

I would hope that any reasonable person when presented with two candidates where one scored higher than the other would award the place to the higher scorer rather than arguing that the higher scorer missed a 'registration' date.

All the documentation I can find states "31 October" is the deadline.

Clearly there has to be a cut-off at some point since lists/rankings need to be assembled. The Kingston documentation states that there can be late applications up to 14th December but that those candidates will be considered after those that had applied by the 31st October deadline.

I have no idea if the late candidates can get tested... but maybe they can be excluded... under the oversubscription logic you mentioned.

It's a brutal process, very subject to performance on the day etc, but in the end the candidates that get in are those that have got the most X's in the right boxes and now also the right answers for the English & Maths papers.

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SVE

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Tiffins admisssion arrangements were published in April 2012. Dates for test registration and submitting CAF were clearly given. Over 1700 applicants registered for Tiffin Boys and over 1600 registered for the Tiffin Girls. Similar numbers registered for Sutton Grammar. Clearly parents were aware of the deadlines, otherwise the applicant numbers could not have been higher than the last year.

Those who registered for the late test are the one who were not interested in Tiffins / Sutton Grammar, or saw late test as opportunity after they knew the results of tests in other schools and were better prepared now as there was further 8-10 weeks time available, or saw it as mock test for indies tests. Specially as a very large number registered for the Tiffin Girls suggest this as their test consisted of VR/NVR/English & Maths.

I think at the least the Schools should treat these late entrants as late applicants and consider these applications after in-time applicants.


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