TGS - New girls from Halifax and bristol

[tiffinboys]

To one parent, who asked about tutoring she actually said: you know, you need to be clever in a first place. He quickly backed off after that.

[tabasco]

"you know, you need to be clever in a first place"

Fantastic answer.

[SunlampVexesEel]

...2 to 3 years of almost daily VR/NVR practice and engaging 2 or even 3 tutors. As a result some very mediocre and average children getting in Tiffin or other grammars

I'm not convinced by that statement; would like to see some evidence.
DD1's peers seem to have had varying degrees of preparation; some had almost zero. They universally seem highly capable (all the ones I've met anyway). In fact it never ceases to amaze me that how given they select based on VR/NVR etc that the school seems to attract amazing talent in non-academics such as sport and music to combine with a high degree of selection on purely academic ability.

[tiffinboys]

The evidence lies in the reason d'etre for the changes in the entrance tests.

Nonsuch added English Comprehension 2 years back and have now completely dropped NVR.
Wallington High dropped NVR 3 years back and added Maths.
TGS added stage 2 tests in English & Maths from last year.
All 3 Sutton boys grammars have dropped NVR 2 years back and now even VR in favour of English & Maths.

In other regions also, changes have taken place, for example, QE, HBS and Latimer. All 13 grammars in Bucks have also changed the tests from GL to CEM from this year. Essex and Kent (30plus grammars) are also said to be reviewing their tests.

This is common view that GL VR/NVR have become too predictable & overly tutor able and are now failing to distinguish bright children from over-tutored ones. Hence, the changes in the entrance tests. Over the years, I have spoken to many parents (and few tutors as well) and there are many many posts here on this forum as well, which lead to believe that not all children getting into grammars are very bright and face difficulty once there.

[London_Mum]

I think the opposite is also true. Some parents buy into the tutoring hysteria completely even when their child is already incredibly bright. There has definitely been a reaction to those passing who perhaps shouldn't have done but equally there are plenty of pupils who are tutored to pass who don't need to be.

The sheer volume of applicants means there is no margin for error and parents want to make doubly certain their child will qualify. This despite knowing that the child is already exceptionally bright and could probably pass the exam with much less preparation.

[bridge]

Whilst there might be some truth in people preparing for VR/NVR exams this could also apply to English and Maths exams. Ultimately there is only a few types of questions that can be asked and this would, in my opinion, make the English & Maths tests more vulnerable to over tutoring.
Many years ago I sat the pilot entrance tests for the RAF and they use tests that would mirror VR/NVR there was more ofcourse however for the military this had proven to be the best method for determining whether a person has intelligence.
By dropping the VR & NVR I see an advantage to privately educated children. The point of these schools is to pick children with potential and enable them to flourish.

[SunlampVexesEel]

I agree. I thought the whole point of VR/NVR was that it was relatively un-tutorable.

Kids in private schools seems to be at least 1 yr ahead in Maths (and probably English) and then there is the cohort that have been tutored in English and Maths (Kumon etc.) for years.

Oh well... I guess it doesn't really matter in the end... you just have to play by whatever method is currently in vogue.

[bridge]

Oh well... I guess it doesn't really matter in the end... you just have to play by whatever method is currently in vogue.

You should remember that if it didn't matter to you it mattered to somebody else and the method that's in vogue is the outcome of someones agitation for change to suit them.

[TiffinGirls]

While I think all the girls in DD's classes over the years have been clever, there is quite a wide range of ability and she thinks there were definitely girls who were well-tutored to get in rather than being the brightest. She also noted that a lot of girls were tutored throughout their time at the school, not necessarily because they were struggling - some of the girls were the brightest - but because they absolutely had to get the right number of A*s for medicine etc.

Personally I have always thought the school liked tutored girls because it indicated that they really wanted to go there and were motivated to work hard. It also tends to indicate supportive (perhaps pushy) parents.

I think up to the mid 2000s the system worked quite well. There were specialist tutors in the local area who understood the exams and were very good at getting local girls into the school. I think a combination of the obsession with league tables, the launch of online information sites like this one, plus more specialist providers entering the market, seemed to destroy the local monopoly. Once the secret was out, more and more families thought they would like a go.

I believe that a majority of girls entering the school in recent years have been intensively tutored. While I think on the whole only the clever get in, I think a lot of clever girls who aren't intensively tutored probably don't.

I have always wondered why the school have not gone for a test that is supposed to be tutor proof like the Durham test which I have read about on this forum. I thought the reasoning behind including maths and English test was to give the heads up to local schools so that they would cover the subject areas in the tests and swing the odds back in favour of local schools. Obviously not! I think the system stinks and it benefits those with money to spend - there are very few free school meal children in the school.

I think a lot of parents are deluded into thinking that the simple fact of getting into the school means their daughters are on a sort of magic conveyor belt where they will automatically end up at Cambridge, med school or whatever they (or more likely their parents) desire. Unfortunately I think some have their illusions shattered after GCSE and AS and the school refuses to over predict grades. The truth is there are clever children in all schools and even inner city comps get children to Cambridge and med-school.

[la boume]

I know about a couple of girls who are really struggling in my DD's class (y7).Some girls are receiving an internal help in Math and English from the six formers. The majority are brilliant and doing very well.
I wonder if there is a sort of a "cull" after GCSEs?